"Glory" Resp. psalm verse during lent.
  • EMH
    Posts: 47
    Happy Lent to you all. I have been lurking on this site for several months, and I have finally found the courage to start a new thread.

    I am a singer. My organist friend and I were doing an OF funeral a few days ago. For funerals we always use Gelineau's "My Shepherd is the Lord" for the responsorial psalm. The final verse is:

    "To the Father and Son give glory,
    give glory to the Spirit
    to God who is, who was, and who will be
    forever and ever."

    Our question is this: Is it appropriate to use this final verse during Lent, since there is no Gloria? We're not sure if there is a policy on this. We found this same psalm in another book and somebody had crossed out that last verse with a pencil. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

    Thank you!
    -Emma
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Firstly, as far as the omitting of the Gloria is concerned:

    1) The Gloria in excelsis Deo (Glory to God in the highest), called the Greater Doxology is omitted during Lent and Advent, except for certain solemnities.

    2) The Gloria Patri (Glory be to the Father) is retained in the Mass for the processional chants (Introit and Communion), but is traditionally omitted from the Fifth Sunday of Lent until the Easter Vigil.

    Secondly, the Gloria Patri is never said at the end of the Responsorial Psalm at Mass no matter what season. Presuming you are in the U.S.: The text of the Responsorial Psalm should be taken from either the NAB translation in the Current U.S. Lectionary for Mass, or the Revised Grail Psalter; these are the only two translations that have been approved for use for the R.Ps. at Mass in the U.S.

    I would highly suggest in purchasing copies of the new book Lectionary Psalms book from GIA, which contains all the Responsorial Psalms for Sundays and Feasts, set to the tones by Gelineau and Guimont.
    Thanked by 2EMH Paul F. Ford
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    Glory Be doxology is used throughout the year.

    The Glory To God In The Highest is not used at Mass on Sundays in Lent or Advent.
    Thanked by 1EMH
  • EMH
    Posts: 47
    Thank you. Yes, I am in the US.

    So, if I omitted the Gloria Patri verse, would it still be OK to use for a responsorial psalm? I did not know Gloria Patri wasn't supposed to be used in a RP.

    The version we're using is published by OCP under "Psalms", but the copyright says:

    "Text and music @ 1963, The Grail (England). ... Used with permission of GIA Publications, Inc."


    Is that the same as the one in the book that you mentioned, Salieri? The book looks very good, by the way, and I will look into purchasing it once I can afford it. :)
  • StephenMatthew
    Posts: 112
    Is there not in fact some wider latitude in the selection of responsorial psalms? I thought there had been some provision made for other collections, such as those often found in various popular hymnals. I know I regularly see/hear the lectionary text replaced by a paraphrase of the psalm found in a hymnal or other such collection (and then there is the vast confusion relating to Spanish and bilingual texts for use in the USA).

    On the Gloria Patri, it is certainly maintained in use when reciting or chanting the Psalms during the Liturgy of the Hours even during Lent, though that has nothing to do with the responsorial psalm.

    I think perhaps the reasons for eliminating the Gloria during Lent are two fold:
    1. It is a festive, celebratory sounding composition out of character with Lent.
    2. It is not a part of the most ancient forms of the Roman liturgy (except perhaps at Christmas), and in Lent we in some ways turn back the clock to more ancient and simpler liturgical practices.
    Thanked by 1EMH
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    The 1963 Grail translations are grandfathered for use in *sung* settings of the responsorial psalm under the US adaptation of GIRM # 61, as they were previously authorized for liturgical use. You would omit the little doxology for use at Mass, per Salieri's explanation.
    Thanked by 1EMH
  • EMH
    Posts: 47
    Thank you for all of the helpful answers. Another question, if you don't mind: Why exactly is the Gloria Patri doxology never supposed to be used in a RP? Is it because it doesn't exist in the Gradual in the EF? It's a wild guess.

    Also, why would the minor doxology even be present in this psalm if it is not allowed to be used in a RP?


    I should mention that I am a teenager trying to learn more about church rubrics and the EF, so I am ignorant about many of these things. :) I do love reading about them, though.
  • dhalkjdhalkj
    Posts: 61
    The wild guess is a good start. And why isn't it used with EF gradual psalms? Because they were already part of the liturgy when the practice of adding the doxology was adopted by orthodox Christians proving they weren't Arians. This would have been at morning and evening prayers. Other mass chants at Introit, Offertory and Communion are from a later time when the use of Gloria Patri is established practice. Also they cover processions which could be of varying length and the doxology was a handy way for the cantor to indicate the psalm was ending (probably before all the possible psalm verses had been used.)
    Thanked by 2EMH Andrew_Malton
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 998
    Other mass chants at Introit, Offertory and Communion are from a later time when the use of Gloria Patri is established practice. Also they cover processions which could be of varying length and the doxology was a handy way for the cantor to indicate the psalm was ending (probably before all the possible psalm verses had been used.)

    But this doesn't explain why the Offertory isn't ended with a doxology, and the Introit and Communion are.
    I'm more inclined to think that it depends on the genre of the chant: Introit and Communion are antiphonal, while Gradual and Offertory are responsorial chants.
    Thanked by 5Salieri CHGiffen Paul F. Ford EMH Andrew_Malton
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