Quick "how should this be scored" music notation question
  • I'm writing a piano arrangement to Ebenezer

    This is the eighth measure.

    Is either of these correct?

    Is neither of these correct?

    If the latter what should this measure look like?

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  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,720
    The last bar of the middle system is acceptable in the second version, exempt of course for the chord symbols. But if the pedaling is clearly marked or understood from the beginning it would look more consistent with the rest to put all dotted wholes in rh and quarters in left.
    Thanked by 1SeasonPsalt
  • Thanks, Richard.

    The measure did look "odd," to everyone in my house, that's why I asked the question. I appreciate the answer!

    The arrangement is intended for piano, so I didn't think of it in terms of pedaling. But because it's for piano, "holding" the chord in this measure, different than the previous measures adds a lot to it.

    I moved the dotted half note G to the lower cleff for consistancy, even though it's intended to be played with the thumb of the right hand.

    The chords are there so my son can play along with me on the guitar, they really weren't intended as part of the keyboard score, and I don't always put the most bass note in them.

    The key is e minor so I write "BMaj" instead of "B" as a courtesy, though I know it is not technically correct.

    Thanks again!
  • PS-

    These are my organ pedals. ;-)
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  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,720
    Just so we're on the same page:
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,720
    Aha, I see that the (supposed wrong) chords go with the partly cut off system below!
  • Ahh... and I thought you were nit-picking that the chords for measures 7 and 8 should technically read "B7 - B/D# - em" , though I'm sure no-one here at MusicaSacra would point something like that out...

    Too funny!

    I never tell pianists when to pedal, that would destroy all semblance of artistic liberty! ;-)

    This is what I came up with, and my daughter agrees it is understandable. And my daughter is probably the only one excluding myself I will ever hear play my arrangement.

    When the score of my arrangement is complete I'll post it PDF here in this thread and anyone who wants can take a look at it if they care to, it will be public domain.

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  • CGM
    Posts: 643
    one small note about chord symbols: you don't need to use "Maj" when indicating a major chord. Chords are assumed to be major (e.g. G or D) until somehow altered. Typically "Maj" is used if there is going to be some additional alteration, such as Maj7 or Maj7(#5).
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  • @CGM- You are correct. When I used to write "lead sheeets" if in say, the key of e minor I would write "BMaj" to remind myself to sharp the D.

    But I see that it goes against convention, and someone might play BMaj7 if reading it quickly, and really I should cease that bad habit.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,530
    small thing, but it would be easier and not as 'odd looking' if were in 3/4 instead of 6/4.

    UPDATE: No, actually, I went and looked at the scores from the hymnal. This is in duple meter. How come the change to triple?
  • @Francis,

    The change to triple is because this is how I've always played this tune. I learned it when I was much younger.

    It is usually scored in 4/4 or in older hymnals 4/2.

    This is the first time I am scoring a hymn exactly as I play it, instead of standard four part harmony. I did not use any of the many existing scores when I started scoring this, because I decided to score exactly what I play when I play it.
  • Well, this is what the first draft ended up looking like.

    I couldn't find the MIDI port on my Samick baby grand or on that pump organ of mine so you get a standard crappy computer-generated MIDI file with no dynamics or articulations but it will give you a general idea.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,530

    Ok, thanks for explanation.
  • Here's a little history on the tune:

    EBENEZER was traditionally called "Ton-Y-botel" (tune in a bottle) because of a legend that it was found in a bottle along the Welsh Coast. However, EBENEZER actually came from the second movement of an anthem ("Goleu yn y Glyn" or "Light in the Valley") by Thomas John Williams.
    EBENEZER was named for the chapel in Rhos, Pontardawe which Williams attended at the time he composed the tune. The word is Hebrew for "Stone of Help".
    It first appeared as a hymn tune in 1890 in a Welsh hymnal entitled Llawlyfn Moliant

    Send Thy Spirit, I Beseech Thee was copied in the United States by the New York Examiner. It was first sung at Bethany Chapel, Cardiff, Jan. 8, 1905, the hymn bearing the name of Rev. W. E. Winks.

    To my knowledge neither "Send Thy Spirit, I Beseech Thee," or "O, The Deep, Deep Love of Jesus" appear in any hymnal approved for use in the Roman Catholic Church. I believe "Once to Every Man and Nation" may be, but I am not sure about this. I also found "Come, Thou Font of Every Blessing" set to EBENEZER.

    OCP set "On the Day of Your Great Coming" by by Genevieve Glen, OSB to this tune in "Voices from the Valley"

    GIA has an organ harmonization in "Twenty-Five Organ Harmonizations, Vol. 2" and a prelude in "Eight Preludes for Organ on Familiar Hymn Tunes."

    CanticaNova has a postlude in "Two Hymn Tune Postludes for Manuals."

    and they also recommend Canon, Fughetta and March on Ton-y-botel (William Gudger) from Organist's Companion, September 1997 in their Music Suggestions for the Twenty-Eigth Sunday in Ordinary Time, Year B.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,444
    EBENEZER was traditionally called "Ton-Y-botel"

    One day I will write a series of dimestore-style detective novel where all the characters are named after hymn tunes. The protagonist will be named Tony Bottles.
  • @Adam: Here's a potential first paragraph. It sounds familiar, somehow, though.

    Marley was dead: to begin with. There is no doubt whatever about that. The register of his burial was signed by the clergyman, the clerk, the undertaker, and the chief mourner. Ebenezer, who went by the name "Tony Bottle," signed it: and Bottle's name was good upon 'Change, for anything he chose to put his hand to. Old Marley was as dead as a door-nail.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    I think Cindy Nomine did it.
    Thanked by 2bonniebede Adam Wood
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,380
    While EBENEZER is an OK tune, I think SeasonPsalt's changing the nine dotted eighth + sixteenth note figures to quarter + eighth note triplets removes the little bit of rhythmic charm that the tune possesses.

  • @ronkrisman,

    removes the little bit of rhythmic charm that the tune possesses

    You may be right. Like I said before, I did not set out to change the tune, only score it exactly the way I play it, since it is one of my favorites, and I've played it like this for many years. I wrote the entire score out of my head, and only looked at other scores later for the lyrics. It was sort of an exercise.

    It ended up on this forum because I could not figure out how to score what I actually do in the 8th measure. Richard Mix helped me out with that.

    PS- That horrible monotone rolling bass you hear in the MIDI is not how I actually physically play it. I stress the 1st and 4th beats (as scores) and the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th are played softly, almost as an afterthought. But with that rolling bass I can imagine the tune being carried along in a bottle.
  • The dotted sixteenths are just a convention. Anyone in Wales would know that it's all triplets all the time. Some hymnal, perhaps the Trinity Hymnal of the Orthodox Presbyterian church prints it this way. I certainly got upbraided in my youth for playing it in a stylistically incorrect way! Now I cringe when I hear it! We can't always trust the printed page.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen