Easter Vigil - cantor question
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    One of my cantors is coming into the church on Easter Vigil. She is very talented. I was considering asking her to sing the Litany of the Saints but wasn't sure if this made sense. I asked my pastor and he approved as long as all the singing was from the loft (which it is for the entirety of the Vigil, except for the Exultet which is proclaimed from the ambo.). This means my cantor has to leave the front row of the church, go to the loft to sing, and make her way back to the front after which there will be a procession to the back where the baptismal font is located.

    Thoughts?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    If it were me, and I had someone else else who could do it, I wouldn't ask her. She's got 3 sacraments to receive in one evening. That's a full plate IMHO.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I'm with Kathy. I would let her pray and have someone else do it. That is the time the catechumens should be praying and preparing themselves for what is about to happen.
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  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    I would let her pray and have someone else do it [i.e., the singing].

    So singing really isn't praying twice after all? Today we learn the truth that what Saint Augustine supposedly wrote was just hyperbole? And, to add further insult, in reality singing is not even praying once?

    So why does anyone sing? Shouldn't we leave all the singing in our churches to paid nonbelievers (certainly they wouldn't do it for free) so that believers can pray?
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I think what Kathy and Ben were saying was that a solo, like that of the Litany, would create a pressure which may take her mind off of the sacraments she is receiving. As well, her movements, from front to back and back to front, may be distracting for her.

    She will have a lot of opportunity to sing. She is a lovely singer and can sing all the ordinary, participate in the psalms, the refrains... there is SO much singing!

    She is a special young woman. I want to make the right decision for her.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    canadash, what you and Kathy wrote makes sense. What Ben wrote does not.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I do understand Ben's comment and I do agree with it. I could be wrong in my interpretation, but having a solo may make one's mind focus on the solo in the time leading to singing it. In that case she would be preoccupied and not praying.
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  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    This reminds me of the rule some pastors follow: that differing roles in the liturgy should be exercised by different people, if possible. I don't usually think of "catechumen preparing for baptism" as a liturgical role, but in the Vigil liturgy perhaps it could be considered that way.
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  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    You are correct, chonak -- and so is canadash. There could be MANY reasons why the young lady NOT be the cantor for the litany. But saying that she should not be the cantor in order that she might "pray" is simply bizarre thinking.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    I thought of Ben's note as saying the same thing in another way: that the lady could devote her attention to the role which, for her, is most important on that day.
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    So ask her what she wants to do. We have had situations where we have had to move a cantor to and from the loft. One such was when she had to be a sponsor at a baptism and needed to be down front. She did that then returned to the loft. The important thing is that it was HER decision. I have found that things can often work out better by themselves if I don't try to micro-manage every detail. Stay calm. Breathe deeply. The wages of Zen are good.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Ben is right. There is praying and praying, and she should be doing the one, not the other.

    And she shouldn't dabble in Buddhism, but that is another story.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • doneill
    Posts: 207
    Augustine apparently didn't really say "to sing is to pray twice." There was a brief discussion on this forum here: http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/5321/augustine-singing-praying.../p1
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    To answer the original question: I would say no for her to do the Litany from a simple and practical perspective. Her main "role" especially at that time is that of receiving the Sacraments of Initiation, and it would look unwieldy having her do the Litany from the loft and then run down to the font to be baptized. This is not intended to be insulting in any way, shape, or form; I'm just envisioning it from a "nuts-and-bolts" perspective.

    I don't know if you've finalized your music, but one thing I could envision that I think could be meaningful and powerful would be something like this: the choir sings the proper Communio, during which she and the rest of the newly-baptized receive their first Communion. Then perhaps she could be a cantor on a hymn such as "I Received the Living God," at least intoning the refrain and having the choir and congregation repeat it. Forgive me if that sounds too complicated or feelings-driven or whatever, but off the top of my head I think that could be a great way to use her while enhancing what she and her fellow neophytes have just experienced: the "climax of Initiation and the center of the whole of Christian life" (Roman Missal, Easter Vigil, no. 64).

    My sincere congratulations to her and all those being baptized, and I hope my two cents makes any sense!
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I'm with Ben and Kathy: have someone else do the Litany.
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  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Yes, we are well-versed in parcing stuff ad nauseum. But this is a personal issue and strategy to be devised by canadash and his singer. I don't "get" the impulse to offer opinions, digressions and form cliques among us to the point of ignoring whatever advice the OP seeks. It's almost like every time someone seeks simple advice, we don blindfolds and then start arguing over what the elephant's physique must be. Yeesh.
    Thanked by 3kevinf doneill CHGiffen
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    I also agree with Melo.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    And she shouldn't dabble in Buddhism, but that is another story.


    Would you prefer, Sikh and ye shall not mind? ;-)
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    She is a special young woman. I want to make the right decision for her.

    I want HER to make the right decision for her. I wouldn't want to say, "No, you can't, or shouldn't". I'd lay out the options and considerations, not put any pressure on one way or the other, and let her decide.

    And I'm going to come to the defense of Ben here. I think all of us have at some point felt a tension between being a liturgical musician and being a worshipper, a sense of "not being in the moment" because we're thinking about the next thing coming up. We know our job, we take it on willingly, and yes, it is prayer. But it would be a great gift to just allow her to receive.
  • I would see how she feels about it--if she doesn't feel like it will be putting too much on her plate all at once, then she will be fine. If she's an experienced singer, singing the litany might not be much pressure for her at all.

    I think all of us have at come point felt a tension between being a liturgical musician and being a worshipper, a sense of "not being in the moment" because we're thinking about the next thing coming up.


    That's a really good point, and something that isn't acknowledged very often. Sometimes I feel guilty because I'm so busy during Mass, even though I know that I'm doing my best to provide the music and I'm not just letting my mind wander.
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  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I think all of us have at come point felt a tension between being a liturgical musician and being a worshipper, a sense of "not being in the moment" because we're thinking about the next thing coming up.



    That's a really good point, and something that isn't acknowledged very often. Sometimes I feel guilty because I'm so busy during Mass, even though I know that I'm doing my best to provide the music and I'm not just letting my mind wander.

    Which is one thing that I think the Silent Canon of the EF has going for it: no Mystery of Faith Acclamation, just the simple 'Amen' at the per ipsum.

    I think the best thing to do is to ask the cantor in question what she would rather do, reminding her that of course she can join with the people in the responses to the litany. But I'd also ask another cantor to learn the litany as a back up, that way if the lady in question decides, even at the last minute, that, no, she'd really rather be in the nave, or if she doesn't make it back upstairs in time, there is someone able to cover with no scrambling.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Not my problem, man. Work it out among yourselves. LOL.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I don't think you give her the option. It would be a distraction the the rest of the worshipers for Her to be running back and forth from the loft. Imagine every prying nicely and hearing her heals clicking on the tile floor as she trying to hurry to get back to the pew while not making to much noise.
    Let her relax and keep all of her attention on the wonderful gift she will be recieving for the very first time in her life.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I think all of us have at come point felt a tension between being a liturgical musician and being a worshipper, a sense of "not being in the moment" because we're thinking about the next thing coming up. We know our job, we take it on willingly, and yes, it is prayer. But it would be a great gift to just allow her to receive.


    That's exactly what I was getting at.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,799
    Shouldn't we leave all the singing in our churches to paid nonbelievers (certainly they wouldn't do it for free) so that believers can pray?

    Fr. Krisman, you're scaring her off! ;-) Surely believers can still be paid for work of a professional standard.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I haven't asked her yet. Of course, if I had, and she declined, I would have respected her decision. I wanted your opinions before I asked her because you may have had this experience. At first I thought I wanted her to sing it, for obvious reasons, but then I had second thoughts for the reasons mentioned above. I'm beginning to view this as one would consider a wedding. The couple doesn't sing at their own wedding (usually). I certainly did not want to sing at mine! It was a day to fully embrace the sacrament and perhaps this is the same type of circumstance.
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  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    That is my feeling. Aside from the more practical questions involving stairs, breathlessness, ladies' footwear, and long processions.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • I would just let her be and not mention it to her. The prayers will be special enough if she participates in them from her place in the pews in her role as a new confirmand. This is a change from my original feelings, which were to offer and allow her to decide. But I now think too much ado is being made over something which she shouldn't, under the circumstances, be involved in and could only be a distraction for her and everyone else. This is the prayerful ministry of another seasoned cantor who can be focused totally on the prayers.
    Thanked by 3canadash Gavin CHGiffen
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I have very much appreciated this discussion. Thank you.
  • However, you get an A+ for thoughtfulness!
    Thanked by 3canadash Ben bonniebede