I tried doing "Who did swallow Jonah" (Whale did) for a school sing about 5 years ago. These kids looked up at me as if I had grown a second head. They'd been singing some Rutter and some other "intro to real music" music for about a year and this simply wouldn't do. Once you've introduced scholarly music to children, they will look askance at anything tawdry or infantile. That doesn't mean we don't do blended repertory, but what contemporary American Catholic repertory we do sing, we sing with proper declamation and vocal technique.

My trebles (grades 3 - 6) are singing complete movements of Vierne's Messe Solennelle this weekend for Laetare Sunday. They were practically dancing to the Sanctus at our last rehearsal, the rhythm was so infectious. Did that make it any less holy (in a rehearsal setting)? Certainly not for me. They simply could not contain their joy. We also let them know that at Mass, they have to keep those dance movements in their head so we can place appropriate attention on the sacrifice at the altar. And Father doesn't dance.

Deo Gratias.

SeasonPsalt,

I think you nailed it when you said that you remember your daughters singing.

My question is not about what pleases parents, but what is good for the growing souls of children.

Really? Why do you think so?

I guess what I'm trying to say are dumb silly fluff songs for children are more a symptom than a cause.

I've also seen many people leave the church who have been raised singing latin.

After the latin left, so did they.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssnw2GA657s

Perhaps I am missing the connection. Were your friends trained in sacred music as children?

I've seen what happens to young sheltered Catholic youth who grew up singing in Latin. Many are leaving the Church in droves.

While I don't dispute that you've seen this happen, SeasonPsalt, there are no doubt many other factors involved. Were they regularly singing the Mass in Latin, that is, the ordinary, antiphons and hymns at a sung High Mass, or just a few random hymns in Latin at a mostly silent Low Mass?

There is a big difference, I believe. If young children are taught to sing the Mass, they will become deeply invested in it. I see it happening at our Latin Mass over the last five years and, while I cannot predict if our children will always retain the faith, at least they will have a large reservoir of Gregorian chant and sacred hymnody stored up in their memory banks, and I'd be willing to bet good money that this rich and profound liturgical experience will help sustain their faith in later life.

The video at the link below (you have to scroll down a bit on the page to access the video) shows, I believe, the ultimate realization of the goals of the original Liturgical Movement: a children's schola leading the congregation in singing the Ordinary of the Mass and singing the propers at the Mass with a minimum of adult direction. In fact, one of the young boys leads the schola during parts of the Mass. What is so astounding is how completely comfortable and at ease they are with the chants of the Graduale Romanum.

Of course, this is a congregation of SSPX France, and I think it's without question that the Catholic French traditionalists have a very strong and vibrant Catholic culture, probably the strongest in the world. If this is how they train their children to sing the Mass, maybe they're on to something?

http://laportelatine.org/mediatheque/videotheque/cacqueray_villepreux_131012_et_13/messe_et_consecration_villepreux_131013.php

Kids are only as limited as their teachers are.

Kids are interesting creatures with a gift for seeing through insincerity, drama, and a lack of general belief. They have pretty good judgments on music, as well. I recently saw a local guitar guru performing his top 70s Catholic hits. The middle-schoolers laughed openly at him and referred to him as an old hippie. Kids easily recognize the differences between the genuinely sacred and the secular. I wouldn't insult them with campfire songs - they likely wouldn't appreciate it.

I think a big problem is that married couples don't live out the teachings of the church. The teachings are difficult to live out fully. I don't think it is lost on kids that mom and dad go to church and know the prayers, but use ABC, condone living together (maybe even did it themselves), skip church when inconvenient, drink to excess, make unwise choices with regard to movies and books....and we can go on. The faith has to be lived out in full for the child to embrace the faith. Liturgy is one aspect of a huge puzzle.

The thesis here is that planned obsolescence is a wickedly effective strategy.

I think this is a sound and profoundly wise statement.

I also agree with SeasonPsalt that the more hyperbolic statements being thrown around are incorrect. The plural of anecdote is data, and I, too, have "data" about Traddie sorts and how they become hypocrites, apostates, and/or socially low-functioning individuals of all sorts. However, I'm not going to label everyone taught Salve Regina at a young age negatively, as I realize my own experiences are from self-selection (as a hypocritical, apostate, socially low-functioning individual, myself). Trads have good and bad, "neo-caths" have good and bad; I'll say that at least the trads tend to keep the faith. Or at least have a faith worth keeping.

In my experience (again, more "data"), I find there IS a need for age-appropriate catechesis. I've gotten a lot of blank stares from 10 year olds while droning on about chant and Latin or Bible stories. I've also had a lot of eyes light up when doing simple chant hymns with drones.

The idea of giving children something they can inwardly digest (if my Anglicanism is showing...) is a sound one, I believe. However, there has to be substance to it. The substance is where much modern children's catechesis (musical or otherwise) is lacking. And absolutely wean them into adulthood. In my personal life, I now find myself in the position of cooking for children. I quickly found that no matter how I season my soups or dress my pasta, they will not eat it. But I can do better than fast food every night by meeting them where they're at, and challenging them to take in more and more adult food.

All of which is quibbling. Kathy is spot on - the children's formation of today is consciously focused on making believing children. It needs to be consciously focused on making believing adults.