Defending Praise and Worship
  • ossian1898ossian1898
    Posts: 142
    Hey folks - I'm looking for a decent article defending Praise and Worship/Contemporary Worship. Any suggestions? No, I haven't gone off the deep end.
  • I'd look to WLP, OCP, and GIA periodicals, perhaps.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    IIRC, our own Ben Yanke wrote a post about that at the Chant Cafe, defending P&W but, generally, not during the Mass.
  • ossian1898ossian1898
    Posts: 142
    I saw that, and its Ok. But I am looking for something somewhat scholarly. (not to offend Ben)
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Not to offend anyone, but I've never really thought of "Praise & Worship" and "Scholarly" going together in the same sentence. Just as I've never heard of a scholarly paper on the 'music' of Eminem, so I've never heard of a scholarly paper on P&W. YMMV

    But if such a thing actually exists, it's probably in the hands of OCP or a big Protestant/Evangelical publisher.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Bert Polman at Calvin College worked on this topic.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    I think the protestants have the corner on that information.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    See if you can contact Prof. Milton Friesen at Fresno Pacific University. They actually have a P/W Music Major up there.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I'm curious.... why are you trying to defend it, and in what context? In the grand scheme, it seems indefensible as an ideal form of music for the liturgy
    Thanked by 2MarkThompson dad29
  • ossian1898ossian1898
    Posts: 142
    It is for a class I teach. The students are reading, discussing, and writing on different perspectives of sacred music.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    it seems indefensible as an ideal form of music for the liturgy

    And O.J.Simpson was deemed indefensible, too, Ben. There's no need to sell this to the CMAA choir. But, in order to sell "ideal" sacred music to "the folks" one needs to be conversant in other styles in order to properly demonstrate the ideal effectiveness of chant, polyphony and hymnody. YMMV.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    melofluent: one needs to be conversant in

    Ossian needs three objections before he can say "I answer that ...".

    :-)
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood Kathy
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    There must be some forum for P&W practitioners too, or even for Catholic P&W-ers. Perhaps their users would know of some more material.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 986
    I know there are a lot of people on Catholic Answers that love that kind of stuff. Maybe you can find someone with more information over there?
  • it seems indefensible as an ideal form of music for the liturgy


    Whoops, I hit the thanks button on your post while trying blearily to click at a "reply" button (that we don't have). Just wanted to point out that I would guess most people who promote Praise 'n' Worship music (and many people who don't, too) would deny the very assumption that there is a single "ideal form of music" for all liturgy. (I think it's up for debate whether the Church even believes that chant is the ideal, which is when they sing Byrd's Mass for Five Voices at a Mass nobody walks around afterward saying, "Well, it was nice and all, sure... but it fell sadly short of being ideal.")
  • But Byrd understood and aspired to retain the "savor" of chant, the ethos, modes, and text-centricity of it. P&W hardly acknowledges its existence.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I'm going to x-post this on the "white list" thread as well.
    Whilst pondering the badminton set re. WIII/WIV, it occurred to me that MJM's point is quite valid, allowing for some circumstances. One such circumstance would be at Francsican U. Steubenville, where their "homegrown" bound hymnal is ratio'd similar to the Gather model, but decidedly with P&W (Maher/Hart/Angrisano) content prominent as well. Well, how does that work? It seems to me that the chapel(s) there, and maybe other gathering spaces have sufficient quantities to suffice for use at liturgies, devotions, para-liturgies, animal blessings. IIRC, from an alumnus in my choir, their ability to chant, to chorally render polyphony etc., hymnody, religious song and P&W was not all compromised or discouraged by the very eclectic repertoire in that hymnal (I snuck a copy, don't tell 'em.) In fact, my FUS gal sang the soprano solo in Allegri's Miserere, but loved singing all that syncopa stuff in the book as well.
    I hope it's noticed I'm not engaging in the liturgical theology debate over hymntext content. But that a hymnal might serve in non-liturgical interests is a viable concern.
  • I would defend PW in the devotional context. Devotions are, even when formalized and celebrated publicly, still something of the character of private or personal prayer. Thus the manner of expression has greater freedom for legitimate variation. Also, it is quite possible (though I can't think of an example) that PW could serve catechetical purposes.

    Also, please note the use of the word "an" rather than "the" before "ideal" in Ben's remark. What is ideal is going to depend on the rite being celebrated and the cultural/historical context to some degree. Thus there is not an argument about a singular universal objective ideal being made, rather the use of "an" implies PW isn't even able to rise to the level of being a subjective or conditional ideal as regards use in sacred liturgy.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I'm sure others besides me listen to Immaculate Heart Radio and are thus aware they have launched two internet music stations, one P&W and one "Sacred." On the broadcast station, however, IHR uses P&W almost exclusively as bumper music. And, of course, they're also marketing the P&W channel quite extensively.
    Does this strategy, likely a demographic strategy, unwittingly promote P&W as licit and viable for worship to inclined listeners? IHR doesn't seem to offer any regular programming that would help young listeners make such distinctions.
    Thanked by 2gregp eft94530
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Melo,

    I was thinking she exact same thing. They play a chant every once in a while.
    I don't have a problem with them playing P&W music as bumper music, its where it belongs, but then they should encourage it to be left out of the church.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    it seems indefensible as an ideal form of music for the liturgy


    Specifically, for the Mass. For devotions, fine. For processions, fine. Not for Hours.