Hymn for papal visit
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Oh, dear: it rhymes "earth" with "word", "child" with "provide", and "world" with "word".

    image
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Can be heard on Youtube:
    http://youtu.be/wnQLrAzPz-A

  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    (Deep breath)
    Not exactly 100 proof elixar vitae, now is it?
    If a new composition is requisite for a papal visitation and presumably Mass, from what tradition, or according to "recent" legislation and exhortations from folks like Mahrt, what forms of "Latin" culture should this unique composition have co-relationship?
    We herein have deconstructed hymnody, both text and tune, in a hundred threads while at the same time generally lumping the "other" forms of alius cantus aptus in the round files named banality and mediocrity (I can think of a large number of "hymns" by "big names" that are far superior to this item.)
    Sometimes I just don't get it. Anyone remember a similar hymn from a European mega-Mass whose quality was even more questionable? Is it a "least common denominator" thing? Is it an FCAP, damn any inspiration or genius to the curb thing?
    I haven't anything to add over at the "Gift of Finest Wheat" thread, but what have we learned forty odd years later that's better than that for these events? And how is this better than the average "theme song" from a LAREC? Egads, can we just chant something already writ large and long in a book outta Rome?
    End of rant.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen JulieColl
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    I yawned at the saccharine bVIII
  • Egads, can we just chant something already writ large and long in a book outta Rome?


    Commissioning hymns to mark special events is a good thing. (Hey, didn't Kathy just make that point?) Now, the poetry of this hymn is very weak, but the themes are good, there is no overt political correctness or weirdness, and in the video Stephen posted it's even accompanied on an organ.
    Thanked by 1Spriggo
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    It's true. There is nothing doctrinally wrong or even misleading (a caution often very correctly advanced by Adam Wood), and its themes are important and relevant. Its Scriptures are central to faith, and the invocation of the Holy Family upon such a meeting is quite tender, actually.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Both Mark and Kathy are correct upon all that they've remarked. I am not demeaning the value of this particular hymn. But I am asking is whether the criteria being set by whomever pays the piper for the commission is enough to insure worthiness and beauty in the extreme? Or I could be off base, no problem.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Generally our poetic standards for texts are at an all-time low. This is often seen in hymnals. At the same time, this text is obviously aiming at truth and evangelistic power. It's Catholic in doctrine and orientation.

    In the rhyme-poor English language, a triple rhyme is very hard to manage, too.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • I could live with the slant rhymes; it's all the rest of the poetry that's terrible. For instance, "You did shelter and provide for wondrous child." And more importantly, to whom is the hymn directed? Verse 2 is about Mary, but verse 3 addresses Joseph directly. Verse 4 then speaks to Jesus, while verse 6 evidently addresses God the Father, at least at the end.

    That said, I certainly give them points for trying in good faith.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    I agree with all you say, Mark.

    One of the things I have wanted to do over the past dozen years or so has been to write hymns, and write about hymns, in such a way that the bar would be raised for the future. It's a strategy that isn't working, obviously.

    This text is not of lower poetic quality than many you see in major hymnals. This is the state of the art--and it is clearly pious, which is an unusual advantage.

    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Kathy, the problem isn't hymns; it's POETRY. There are no articulable standards of craft in modern-style poetry. And traditional-style poetry is a thing so discouraged that few develop any level of craft, let alone your level of craft. (Even when rhyme was acceptable, there was no shortage of rank incompetence.)

    All you can do is set an example.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Kathy
  • Maybe it works with a Philadelphia accent?
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Yo, Adrienne!
  • AndrewK
    Posts: 41
    What's with the line under verse three?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    What's with the line under verse three?
    It's a visual cue to which stanza one is singing, since going from one line to the next in, say the 4th verse of a 6 verse hymn might be difficult on the eyes and brain. Some hymnals use a line after every few verses of a many verse hymn, and some put in some extra vertical space between every few verses.

    Examples:
    1
    2
    3  
    4
    5
    6

    or

    1
    2  
    3
    4
    5  
    6
    7

    or

    1
    2
    3  
    4
    5  
    6
    7
    8
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • In practice most (average, particularly untrained) parish musicians take such a line to mean something like, "stop here if you want" or "you can sing these 3 verses or those 3 verses, but not all 6", or "we can use the first half as an entrance and the second half as an exit since it has this handy break in the middle".
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    In practice most (average, particularly untrained) parish musicians take such a line to mean something like, "stop here if you want" or "you can sing these 3 verses or those 3 verses, but not all 6"...

    I've been singing from hymnals for more than 60 years, and I've never heard that interpretation of what, in the publishing industry, is called a "sight line." It's hard to believe that "most" parish musicians labor under that misunderstanding.

    BTW, GIA uses sight lines in their hymnals when a hymn has six or more stanzas. OCP adds them when a hymn has five or more stanzas. WLP does not use them, but adds extra line spacing after each third stanza when there are six or more.
    Thanked by 2Richard Mix CHGiffen
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I agree with StephenMatthew.... I think, though people have never been told this, that "stop here if you want" is a common held belief in many parishes.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    I've seen "stop here if you want" markings but they are much stronger. Eg, when "alternate verses for Easter Vigil" or something are given, or Praise God ftom Whom All Blessings Flow is lined underneath All People That on Earth Do Dwell.

    In those cases it is more like two songs sharing one melody.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I use "sight lines" and often write them in when needed. They help greatly in the land of tri-focals and fuzzy vision.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    This is a pretty interesting instance of symbols not being received as intended.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • I've been singing from hymnals for more than 60 years, and I've never heard that interpretation of what, in the publishing industry, is called a "sight line


    So?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Those "sight lines" are an OF plot to undermine and destroy the faith and liturgy. I smell the smoke of Illuminati in them.


    Thanked by 2canadash CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Those "sight lines" are an OF plot to undermine and destroy the faith and liturgy. I smell the smoke of Illuminati in them.
    Protestants might protest that this is not correct.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    If the quality of the text is low, why worry about "stop here"?

    I suppose that this hymn will be used as the entrance hymn for the major Mass, and will have to be repeated, perhaps more than once, and be accompanied by trumpets and tympani, etc. This has been a pattern at such Masses.

    I would suggest, however, that a more effective processional would be the proper Gregorian introit for the day. The hymn accompanied by fanfares, etc., says here is a major public event, but does not convey much that is transcendent; the Gregorian introit says unambiguously "something sacred and transcendent is about to happen," it conveys a sense of anticipation, focusing upon what is coming up, which is what the introductory piece should do.

    I would suppose this suggestion would be rejected out of hand, and so I would propose a compromise: sing the hymn first, and when the procession is nearly finished, shift to the Gregorian introit, which would then accompany the incensation of the altar. The message then would be one of a transition to a more sacred sense; this would enhance the anticipation of the sacred and transcendent.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    the Gregorian introit says unambiguously "something sacred and transcendent is about to happen," it conveys a sense of anticipation, focusing upon what is coming up, which is what the introductory piece should do.
    THIS.
    a compromise: sing the hymn first, and when the procession is nearly finished, shift to the Gregorian introit, which would then accompany the incensation of the altar.
    And this is a sensible alternative.
  • which would then accompany the incensation of the altar.

    With its concomitant cacophony of congregational coughs.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • With its concomitant cacophony of congregational coughs.
    But, but… John Cage taught us that was music.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Hack and Wheeze in D for Trumpets, Tympani and Zymbelstern.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    You know, it's funny.

    Yesterday I was driving down a main street and there was a fairly new office building. Not an unusual decorative one, not flashy or cutting edge.

    But it's obviously built well and squarely, according to whatever specs and regs there must be for this sort of thing. There's nothing iffy or dubious about it.

    Somehow we've managed our infrastructure to the point where we can really count on buildings to be buildings.

    Is there some reason this hasn't happened regarding the worship of God?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Btw, while I agree with Dr. Mahrt's solution, it is only half a solution. According to the current GIRM, and in the minds of almost every single person attending, the hymn will not seem to be a mere prelude to the "real" entrance chant, particularly when the chant does not begin until after an extended procession. The content, poetic power, fluency, prophetic character, beauty, and musicality of the chant that accompanies the procession really do matter.

    I think the ROTR misses out on about half of the work it could be doing to elevate the liturgy by avoiding the task of quality control on "mere hymnody."
    Thanked by 1MarkThompson
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I would suggest, however, that a more effective processional would be the proper Gregorian introit for the day.....Mahrt

    Egads, can we just chant something already writ large and long in a book outta Rome?Fatguy


    Did I hear someone whisper "circumambulation.....circumambulation"?
    Speaking of, after six or so years of advocacy, we're going to try it on Palm Sunday. Yahoo!