Mass IX for Sundays of Christmas?
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    In my parish book of chant it says for Mass IX cum jubilo are for feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mary. One source I recall says Mass IX is used for Sundays of Christmas. Is this correct? Thanks.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    The indications in PBC regarding the use of chant ordinaries are carried over from the Graduale Romanum. They are more like recommendations than rubrics, so no rule is broken by singing Mass IX on the Sundays you suggest. Here is a translation of the explanation from the Graduale Romanum:

    "This Ordinary is NOT meant to be a matter of hard and fast rule: chants from one Mass may be used together with those from others, the Ferial Masses excepted. In the same way, in order to add greater solemnity, one or more of the following “Chants ad libitum” may be employed."
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  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Thank you. I suppose I'm really not worried about breaking a rule. Let me ask it this way: is there one mass setting that is usually done more than others on Christmas Sunday
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    In my experience, Mass VIII, Missa de Angelis, seems to be the most common choice for the Christmas season (and for the rest of the year in many TLM venues!) We usually sing Mass VIII on Christmas Day and for the following Sunday and then we'll go back to Mass XIV, Missa Jesu Redemptor, until Septuagesima.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    As Julie says, Mass VIII (Missa de angelis) is most commonly sung. But it's most commonly sung on all the other Sundays too, so I'm not sure this answers your question. I haven't heard of a tradition of singing Mass IX on the Sundays of Christmas, but you could start one!

    In the US, there wasn't a widespread tradition of singing chant ordinaries from the Graduale Romanum in parish settings prior to the Council. Choirs at High Mass typically sang modern (18th c. and later) compositions accompanied by the organ. The people generally didn't sing at all, even the responses.
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  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    The only tradition I have heard (from one of my choir members who grew up in a French Parish) was that Henri Du Mont's Messe Royale No. 1 (Messe du 1r Ton) was used for Christmas (and the Christmas season, to, IIRC).
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  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    We have always sung Mass IX at Christmas...

    Partly because our Cantors are usually on Holiday, so Mass II or III we would usually sing are not so well known. Mass VIII is really boring and mostly modern! And why not do something in honour of the Mother... It is a lovely Mass too.
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  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    I've had my eye on this post and finally remembered where I had found information on this subject before:

    In the book Liber Antiphonarius pro Vesperis et Completorium (1891), which is a Solesmes publication for the Roman Office, the Benedicamus Domino which corresponds to Mass IX is given on p. [193] with the description:

    3. In Festis B. Mariae Virginis, et per Octavam Corporis Christi et Nativitatis ejusdem.

    "Nativitatis ejusdem", meaning "the Nativity of the same", presumably goes with the part about the Octave of Corpus Christi, in which case this is a bit of evidence in favor of Mass IX being associated with Christmas, or at least the Octave thereof.

    Also, in the norms for choirs which wish to sing at St. Peter's Basilica, for Sundays of Christmas, the expectation is that Mass IX will be sung.
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  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Tomjaw, I'm so intrigued by your comment about the age of Mass VIII. Which Masses in the Kyriale are the most ancient? I'm particularly interested in the ages of Masses V, VI, and VII.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    The Liber and Graduale indicate the dating of the earliest manuscripts for the chants of the ordinary. For example, the Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus and Agnus Dei of Mass I are dated to the 10th century (X. c., or X. s., depending on which edition you're looking at). Here is a summary:
    OrdinaryList.pdf
    6K
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  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Thank you, Arthur. This is so invaluable! I've never been able to find much information about the different mass settings.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    JonathanKK
    The earlier Solesmes books c. 1890 have different allocations for the Ordinaries, my copy is rather far away at the moment to give the changes.

    JulieColl
    Arthur has kindly posted a document with the dates, I just use my L.U. which has the dates in Roman numerals. I presume the research that produced this is now out of date, but I have not seen any corrections.

    N.B. We have used the late dates of the Mass VIII (XV-XVI) with exception of the rather nice Sanctus (XI-XII) and Credo III (XVII. c.) as excuses not to sing them!
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    LOL! Sounds like you have an early music program going there. What is your hypothetical cut-off date for compositions? That sounds a little bit like the movement my brother-in-law told me about when he was getting his doctorate in cello in the early 90's. He was very interested in using period instruments and thought very highly of the Academy of Ancient Music and Christopher Hogwood's work.
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