Christoph Tietze Introit Hymns?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I found a copy of Christoph Tietze's Introit Hymns (Text only) on Google Books, and was shocked and appalled to fined the Tetragrammaton used. This was a text from 2005, and I was wondering if anyone who had the music edition could tell me whether or not he continued to use this in later editions published after the moratorium on the liturgical use of the Most Holy and Unutterable Name of Almighty GOD from the CDW? If he does, how often? I would like to buy the book, but not if 1 out of 4 texts is unusable.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I think it happens once or twice at best in the book. On the whole it's a great resource.
    Thanked by 2Salieri mgearthman
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    The letter to episcopal conferences around the world from the Vatican CDWDS saying that the word Yahweh must not be used or pronounced in songs and prayers during Catholic masses is dated June 29, 2008. So it is somewhat understandable that publications from an earlier time may contain the word.

    But they shouldn't have. The CDWDS was not just making a new "rule," but rather stating a longstanding Catholic tradition. Catholics don't sing or say "Yahweh," or its corruption, "Jehova," in liturgical prayers and songs.
    Thanked by 2Salieri CHGiffen
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    However, Catholics in general were never taught not to use "Yahweh," or its corruption, "Jehova,".

    I never learned this and do not recall it being in the Baltimore Catechism. Was it missing a page?

    Really, isn't it time to accept the wonderful things that people like Christoph Tietze has done than to pick away...

    Are we going to find out that in 1953 Dr. Mahrt got a parking ticket? And that on Palm Sunday last year Melofluent did not smile?
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Well, Noel, if "Catholics in general" think that the sum of all things Catholic is found in the Baltimore Catechism, what you say may be true.

    However, I don't ascribe to your premise.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Let's face it. We all know the entire "Yahweh" rule was nothing but a plot against Dan Schutte.
    Thanked by 4noel jones, aago matthewj francis ghmus7
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    For information about the qere and ketiv of the TETRAGRAMMATON, this appears to be a good starting point:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qere_and_Ketiv
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    There is no reason to follow the practice of the Hebrew religion if you are Catholic.

    This smacks of just another "ecumenical" move that has made things more friendly among clergy of various faiths, but has done nothing for the people of the church.

    But this is merely the opinion of a church musician who watched priests over the last 50 years destroy the music of the church...and the priests who should have known better let it happen.
    Thanked by 1Ryan Murphy
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    In the case of SONGS instead of HYMNS, all you have to do is switch out the LORD's name with Looooooord.

    With hymns, unfortunately, there is no easy switch.

    But, there are always workarounds.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    The letter to episcopal conferences around the world from the Vatican CDWDS saying that the word Yahweh must not be used or pronounced in songs and prayers during Catholic masses is dated June 29, 2008. So it is somewhat understandable that publications from an earlier time may contain the word.


    So is there enough space in Purgatory for all those who have, even innocently, used or pronounced it during Mass since June 29, 2008?

    I think the status of dogs in heaven is more important to Catholics than following Jewish practice concerning words that should not be said. Of course, Harry Potter might disagree.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    People who used it innocently didn't sin, ipso facto; no sin = no extra time in Purgatory.

    Many Catholics probably came to consider it acceptable to use the Tetragrammaton in spoken prayers or songs after the Jerusalem Bible was published in the mid-1960s: an edition which used the Holy Name in many passages. It was widely recommended for reading and also was approved for lectionary use in this country until 2002 -- which makes me wonder if the Holy See approved it.

    I can certainly believe that the Baltimore Catechism failed to mention the apparently long-standing Catholic tradition against uttering the Holy Name of God, and I can attest that it was not mentioned in RCIA either! :-)

    (Off-topic:) As for the ultimate state of dogs in Heaven, the recent talk about that is based on some press confusion. An Italian writer took some general statements from Pope Francis and **applied** them to animals, and the US press attributed words to the Pope which he didn't say. More info at:
    http://catholiclight.stblogs.org/index.php/2014/12/no-pope-francis-didnt-say-that/
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Noel, I'm not saying anything negative about Tietze's work - or Kathy's, for that matter - Hymn tune propers do fill an aching void, and from what I have seen Tietze has done a great job. Financially, I just didn't want to shell out a bunch of my own money for a book that would be 60% unusable in the liturgy.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Hmm... How much would you shell out for mine? :
    $$$$$
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    For a handsome, hard-bound choir book, with tunes, harmonies and chants for the whole Church year: around $45-50 a copy.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Salieri,

    Stay tuned.
    Thanked by 3Heath Salieri mgearthman
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