Hymn in OF Vespers?
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    Hi folks,

    Must the hymn at an OF Vespers always be from the liturgical books? It would seem a shame, especially in English, for there not to be freedom to bring in our language’s rich vernacular hymn tradition. But the GILH seems not to say anything akin to “alius cantus aptus” when describing the hymn or any other text.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    The Hymns in the Office should be the Office Hymns. Period. Many of these have been translated into English by John Mason Neale, et al., used as 'regular' hymns, and are familiar to people, such as the Vespers Hymn "Creator of the stars of night" for Advent.

    Unfortunately, the American LotH substitutes many of the actual Office Hymns with popular Vernacular hymnody (some of which are actually metrical psalms like "Praise my soul, the King of Heaven"). This is just as detrimental to the integrity of the Office as replacing the Propers of the Mass with popular hymnody.

    That said, Office Hymns are in regular meters, so if you have qualms about the ability of the people to sing the Hymn to the Gregorian melody you can find a hymn-tune that people know and set the Office text to it.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    This is just as detrimental to the integrity of the Office as replacing the Propers of the Mass with popular hymnody.

    I disagree. Replacing Propers with hymnody is changing the form of the service. Changing a hymn is more akin to using Graduale Simplex in lieu of GR, or swapping in the chant from another occasion within the same season (which GR/OCM specifically allows).

    I sympathize with “let the liturgy speak for itself”, really. At the same time, there is some truly outstanding vernacular hymnody in the English language that there seems no reason, other than the “letter of the law”, not to incorporate.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    We have official liturgical books and liturgical laws for a reason. And it is our duty to do in obedience what we are told by the Church. Until such a time comes that a 'Hymnale Simplex' is issued or the GILH is revised to allow alius cantus aptus, we must follow the law as it is today, not as we wish it was or will be.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    The Mundelein Psalter's example is the one to be followed, I think. The compilers chose Office hymns such as the translations from St. Cecilia's Abbey on the Isle of Wight which are good, solid translations that can be sung to a Gregorian melody, e.g. Jesu Dulcis Memoria or Creator Alme Siderum. Those texts are also usually the ones found in iBreviary.
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    I agree; my inquiry is to confirm my understanding of the rubrics (probably not limited just to the GILH).
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    Actually, wouldn’t we be about due for a new edition of the Mundelein Psalter? I suppose not until the Office translation is updated/fixed per LA.
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 390
    Felipe: GILH really does not allow us to freely select replacement hymns. GILH 178 gives this right only to the conferences of bishops.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Felipe! -

    How often do we lament that Catholics are ignorant of their own heritage of liturgical music, whether it be the propers and ordinaries of the mass, or the hymns, canticles and psalmody of the office? One should jump at every opportunity to correct this calumny. There is no shortage of highly commendable office hymnody which should be on the lips of every Catholic - by all means glory in it! We have ample opportunities to sing the other fine hymnody of which you speak without without using it to replace the 'propers' of the office. Of course (heh, heh), you can always do Evensong!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    We have ample opportunities to sing the other fine hymnody of which you speak …

    I’m not sure I agree with that. Yes, many (most?) of us “insert” hymns into the Mass, but that’s not quite “germane” to the celebration itself.

    Anyhow. What are the reprint terms on the hymn translations in Fr. Weber’s hymnal or the Lumen Christi Hymnal, does anyone know?
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Surely, surely all this apparently excellent vernacular hymnody can find a home, but not during the Liturgy of the Hours, and not at Mass. Manifestly it is time to reinvigorate the fullness of Catholic culture. What hymns can we sing in Eucharistic Processions, or at festivals in honor of various saints? What about ....oh, wait, this was my point in an earlier discussion thread, and I was told in no uncertain terms that vernacular hymns belonged at Mass and that I should just crawl back under my rock if I believed otherwise.

    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Felipe, contact the nuns at Ryde Abbey directly for permission to reprint their texts. I believe they will freely grant it.

    There are monks at Mt Angel in Oregon who have translated the LH as well.
    Thanked by 1Felipe Gasper
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