The hymnal you've been waiting for is shipping soon... the Lumen Christi Hymnal! The FUTURE IS HERE
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Well, if he isn't, I take it back!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    The perspective of the "digression discussion" took a unique turn this evening when we read through about six hymns of Peter Kwasniewski's SACRED CHORALWORKS collection. He has a substantial amount of "A" level hymns in Latin and English. How are they, ever, going to enter any mainstream consideration, as they should because they meet criteria that are fundamental to the principles of CMAA/Adoremus and the arts themselves, if the resources of "new hymnal" expansion and distribution are a closed circle based upon post-Renaissance to Victorian-era European theoretical styles? They, like so much bygone repertoire, will be relegated at best to regional and sporadic choral display, and by not being taken up by congregations will leave the larger hymn culture impoverished. Big dichotomy.
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    There are, in fact, a goodly number of modern tunes that are good.

    I would agree. I have made a list of 45 tunes from the previous century, all of which are included in almost every denominational hymnal published these days. The tunes are very good. And they are all "time-tested," all except Sally Ann Morris' ROMANS 8 (2006), which is also included in nearly every denominational hymnal published these days.

    I do not fault the tunes included in Lumen Christi Hymnal. A few of them - certainly no more than 10 - may not have the appeal they once did. "Time tested" for one age does not mean a tune will not fall out of favor 50, 75, or 100 years later. Witness the Old Westminster Hymnal, in which clearly half of the hymns contained therein would not be useful today.

    @melofluent makes a very good point. What message is being sent when only seven hymn tunes of the previous century are included?

    Anyway, here's my list.
    Tunes in BOLD are included in the Lumen Christi Hymnal

    ABBOT’S LEIGH (Cyril Taylor)
    ABERYSTWYTH (Joseph Parry)
    ANDÚJAR (David Hurd)
    BRIDEGROOM (Peter Cutts)
    BICENTENNIAL (Robert Kreutz)
    CANTATE DOMINO (ONSLOW SQUARE) (David Wilson)
    CASTLEWOOD (Richard Proulx)
    CHRISTIAN LOVE (Paul Benoit, OSB)
    CRUCIFER (Sydney Nicholson)
    CWM RHONDDA (John Hughes)
    DE EERSTEN ZIJN DE LAATSTEN (Frits Mehrtens)
    DOWN AMPNEY (Ralph Vaughan Williams)
    DUNEDIN (Vernon Griffiths)
    EARTH AND ALL STARS (David Johnson)
    EBENEZER (Thomas Williams)
    ENGELBERG Charles Stanford)
    FESTIVAL CANTICLE (Richard Hillert)
    FORTUNATUS NEW (Carl Schalk)
    FREDERICKTOWN (Charles Anders)
    GENEVA (George Day)
    JERUSALEM (Charles H.H. Parry)
    JULION (David Hurd)
    KING’S WESTON (Ralph Vaughan Williams)
    LAUDATE DOMINUM (Charles H.H. Parry)
    LIVING GOD (Clément Jacob, OSB)
    LOVE UNKNOWN (John Ireland)
    McKEE (Harry Burleigh)
    MERLE’S TUNE (Hal Hopson)
    MIGHTY SAVIOR (David Hurd)
    OPTATUS VOTIS OMNIUM (Anon./ George Woodward)
    PURPOSE (Martin Shaw)
    RADIANT CITY (Thomas Pavlechko)
    RAQUEL (Skinner Chavez-Melo)
    REPTON (Charles H.H. Parry)
    ROMANS 8 (Sally Ann Morris)
    RUSTINGTON (Charles H.H. Parry)
    ST. CLEMENT (Clement Scholefield)
    SALVE FESTA DIES (Ralph Vaughan Williams)
    SHANTI (Marty Haugen)
    SHARPTHORNE (Erik Routley)
    SINE NOMINE (Ralph Vaughan Williams)
    SURSUM CORDA (Alfred Smith)
    THAXTED (Gustav Holst)
    THE CALL (Ralph Vaughan Williams)
    UNION SEMINARY (Harold Friedell)
    Thanked by 3M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen BruceL
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    A fine list, indeed, Father.

    A question about Hillert's 'Festival Canticle': it is quite stirring, it is excellent music, and I have used it many times in my years of service amongst Lutherans -
    but, should we really call it a hymn tune?

    And, a personal idiosyncracy: I may be the only person who really does not get off to 'Love Unknown', but it has never had the slightest appeal to me. And, I am quite an admirer, otherwise, of John Ireland. It is a great pity that anthems such as his 'Greater Love' would not really fit into Catholic liturgy as offertory anthems or anything else... a very very great pity! (Assuming that we had choirs who could sing them and organists who knew how to accompany them.)

    But, back to your and Charles' point - it is really incumbent upon the editors of hymnals that aspire to the highest respect that they include an appreciable number of really good modern tunes. They are being written. (Keeping in mind that modern and so-called 'contemporary' are far from the same thing.)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    .
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    “Festival Canticle”, I agree, fits but awkwardly into the designation of “hymn tune”. I like it, but the responsorial structure has worn on me over time.

    I adore “Love unknown”—I think a bit more for the text than the tune, but the two are inseparable in my mind.

    It is, in a sense, particularly incumbent on hymnal editors to include modern tunes for the sake of those of us who really prefer not to waste our time filling out copyright usage forms from OneLicense.net et al.
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    Walker “Laudate Dominum” is:

    http://cdn.ocp.org/shared/mp3/preview90/10801_1_8.mp3
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    I'm really looking forward to hearing a new generation singing DEO GRATIAS. I have heard it sung well by a group of young male Religious, and there is something rather stirring and almost martial about it. It is a tune with majestic scope that sings of commitment.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Perhaps hymnal editors ought to be somewhat wary of considering Catholic worship books as one among many denominational hymnals. Catholicism is not a denomination. It is the mother ship, as the Second Vatican Council reminds us in many different ways. The grace given to all Christians among the separated brethren flows through this one Church that keeps faith with Christ and with one another in this particularly fruitful way.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    How are they, ever, going to enter any mainstream consideration, as they should ... , if the resources of "new hymnal" expansion and distribution are a closed circle based upon post-Renaissance to Victorian-era European theoretical styles?
    ... it is really incumbent upon the editors of hymnals that aspire to the highest respect that they include an appreciable number of really good modern tunes.
    Of the nine last century hymns in the LCH, two are from 1925/6, two from 1918, one each from 1916 & 1911, and the rest appeared in 1906 (just barely out of the Victorian era).
    It is, in a sense, particularly incumbent on hymnal editors to include modern tunes for the sake of those of us who really prefer not to waste our time filling out copyright usage forms from OneLicense.net et al.
    Precisely. This is why I have put all my own hymn settings (tune & harmonization) in the public domain or in the commons at CPDL. At least you can download and use them freely with no licensing fees.

    Of course, the downside of this is that the big publishers won't even sniff, let alone look, at works that are freely available, because they want to negotiate publishing deals that are lucrative to themselves.

    I'm just fortunate that a few of my tunes & settings have gained some traction on their own (especially the first one): RASMUS 78. 78. 77 ("Let Thy Blood in Mercy Poured"), MCSHANE 77. 77. 77 ("Sing, O Sing, This Blessed Morn"), CORDE NATUS 87. 87. D (or 87. 87. 87. 77) ("At the Dawning of Creation"/"Of the Father's Love Begotten"). The jury is still out on my newer tunes ST CROIX L.M.D. ("From Lands That See the Sun Arise") and BEAUDRY 87. 87 .87 ("Jesus, Lord of Life Eternal").
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I need to look at this hymnal, since we will be purchasing something in the near future. Just from the discussion here, I do note a few things.

    1. No psalms? If I have to print handouts from Chabanel every week, what's the point in buying a hymnal?

    2. Seems like a good selection of older hymns, but some well-known hymns are missing.

    3. Based on eventually replacing hymns with propers? Not us and not our goal. I don't see us ever replacing the entrance hymn. I dropped the offertory hymn some years ago so it doesn't matter.

    4. What's in the accompaniment book? Are these good, traditional accompaniments or the work of a little mini-Proulx who has to make everything fresh, new, and discordant?

    5. So it takes the hymnal plus two other books to cover everything? Not so good.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Regarding the "responsorial" criterium, Felipe et al, we should recall that texts such as "All glory, laud and honor....Come, Holy Ghost....Lift high the cross...Immaculate Mary....etc." have the same component.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Perhaps hymnal editors ought to be somewhat wary of considering Catholic worship books as one among many denominational hymnals. Catholicism is not a denomination.

    When I used the term "denominational hymnal," I had in mind those non-Catholic ecclesial communities which have a hymnal, such as, Methodist, Presbyterian USA, Episcopal USA, Lutheran Church of America, Church of the Brethren, etc.

    Of course, Catholicism is not a denomination, as Kathy rightly points out. Additionally, the Catholic Church in the USA has never had a hymnal.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    This is a hymnal, not an "all in one parish resource."

    It is a book of hymns. That's it. That's what the word hymnal means.

    It is intended to be supplemented with either the Lumen Christi Missal (which contains the readings, Psalms, congregational proper refrains, Mass Ordinaries, etc) or the Lumen Christi Simple Gradual (which contains congregational proper refrains and Mass Ordinaries), or a worship aid (which you would put what other resources your parish needs in).
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Of course, the downside of this is that the big publishers won't even sniff, let alone look, at works that are freely available, because they want to negotiate publishing deals that are lucrative to themselves.

    When copyrighted hymn tunes are included in a hymnal, it is the composers of those hymns who receive royalties. Those royalties are taken into account when a publisher establishes what the selling price of the hymnal is going to be, and that depends upon production costs, expected royalty payments, and how much profit the publisher plans to make on the entire effort. It may well be that a publisher which produces a hymnal with few or no compositions and texts for which royalties have to be paid will plan to make a larger profit on its endeavor than one which does include copyrighted texts and tunes.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Additionally, the Catholic Church in the USA has never had a hymnal.

    And likely never shall. (see CBW, various incarnations ;-)
    The orangutan and gorilla in the room apropos this issue will ever remain the Graduale Romanum and the Liber Usualis and their subset volumes.
    "And that's the way it was...." (try to sound like Walter Cronkite when saying out loud.)
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Well, except for the LH those aren't hymnals.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Kathy Pluth has some wonderful things to say about the Wesley hymn Christ Whose Glory Fills the Skies here: http://hymnographyunbound.blogspot.com/2005/12/christ-whose-glory-fills-skies.html

    If you want to sing this hymn from a hymnal in your pew... well... you need to contact me.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    I'm not even a dm currently, and I want to buy like 500.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Precisely.
    But we're a conglomerate of Catholics who've (finally) recognized the once obscured heirarchy of right and fit worship in our native rites, that ideally seeks to achieve the highest expression, or what Mahrt calls the "paradigm." That is the GR and LU. As you've often championed, hymns for the singing of the Office are its ideal form for musical expression.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    If you're looking for office hymns, this hymnal is chock full!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    If you're looking for office hymns, this hymnal is chock full!
    Kathy, to me at least, that is probably the best thing it has going for it.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Charles, I'm sympathetic to your frustration. My own original hymn texts are not included in the hymnal. I was asked to provide a number of translations because for some Latin texts, good translations do not exist, but not my own freely composed texts.

    I do stand by the curation of the metrical hymns, and although I could name a dozen hymns that I would have preferred to include, there is no schlock in here at all. That in itself is an enormous accomplishment of which I am very proud. To produce a hymnal that entirely excludes music that is unworthy of the Liturgy is unheard of in this day and age. It's an act of the New Evangelization and of leadership and I'm very pleased about it.

    None of my additions would include Draw Us in the Spirit's Tether or Hail Thee Festival Day, by the way, much less I Received the Living God or (heaven forfend) Earth and All Stars.
    Thanked by 1matthewj
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I'm going to bump this to commend the under-used text/tune pairs MICHAEL/All my hope on God is founded, and EWING/Jerusalem the Golden.

    Please revive my faith in hymnody in the Catholic Church and tell me others of you use these! ;)
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