Starting a Sung Vespers Program
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Hey all, I'm going to try to start a sung Vespers program at my church. This is still in its infancy but I'm preparing the resources for doing so. Does anyone have any resources and/or any advice on how to do so? I have a basic outline of the service, but I was trying to get some experienced points of view on this. I will probably create a schola for the purposes of doing this, and I think I've got about three men I can enlist. I am a teacher and can teach them everything they need, but I need to know the structure and conventions of the service so I can effectively lead it.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    I can probably help with this. PM me.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    ClergetKubisz,

    First question: EF or OF? Yes, it makes a difference.

    Second question: Do you intend antiphonal singing, polyphonic singing, or a congregational sing-along?

    Third question: Given that many parishes have cliques which seek to control everything and anything, do you know which precise minefields you're entering, and can you prepare for them?

    Experience: My parish began singing Vespers (resumed in 2014) and uses binders prepared by the priest who officiates. Those who stay (who aren't numerous, but are sincere) reap rewards. 12:30 Mass; 2:00 finger-foods on the property; 3:00 Vespers and Benediction.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    Chris' questions are good ones!
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 998
    Fourth question: if OF, English or Latin?

    My experience (OF Vespers in the vernacular): vocal participation of the people is essential for the parts that pertain to them; don't choose music that makes it an all choral vespers; choose music simple enough for people to pick it up quickly (especially for the psalmody), but not too simple that would make vespers dull in the long run; don't underestimate the ability of people to sing; stick to the approved liturgical texts and rubrics; create pew resources with everything (text and music) in the right order, don't make people turn back and forth; insert short times of sacred silence in the appropriate places, for example after the short reading.
    Thanked by 3bonniebede CHGiffen igneus
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    Also just started OF (English) Vespers using Irish Approved LOTH.
    I'm busy preparing a pew resource for that.
    I bought the Antiphonale Romanum to have access to the Antiphons, only to find that the English language LOTH has in places replaced rather than translated the antiphons. Frustrating. I will share whatever I have as I prep it.
    We sang for the first time last Sunday, just me and 4 people in the pews. One person said they knew how loth went, three didn't. One of those sang well, two not at all. We sang through recto tono, which actually worked well.
    I am planning to use St Meinrad or other psalm tones, but building up from two line tones to more complex tones, and gradually introducing antiphonal propers. Singing the Pater noster and SAlve regina in latin, simple tones.
    My childrens schola is going to help out once a month, hopefully when the adults see that the 6 and 7 year olds can chat the psalms sight unseen, it will encourage them.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    We have always used the EF, at our OF parish. A number of other churches here in London also use the EF.

    The advantages of the EF...
    1. All the music online and free.
    2. Plenty of polyphonic settings, many online and free.
    3. Translations can be found in the St. Andrew daily missal (out of copyright), or here,
    http://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl

    We always produce booklets for those in choir, with all the music, and sometimes the translations. We also have some Congregational booklets made up, our P.I.P.s don't seem to mind not having the translations.

    A sample of our choir booklet can be found here second link,
    https://societyofstbede.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/st-alphonsus/

    N.B. the booklet above is set for the older Rubrics not 1962!
    Thanked by 3bonniebede Daniel Bennett Page CHGiffen
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Tom, did you get your music from the Antiphonale? If not, what resource do you use?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    When setting the chant for the Vespers booklet I usually use both a L.U. c.1950 and the Liber Antiphonarius (Roman), 1949 ed., both in hard copy editions that can sit either side of my laptop.

    There are type-setting differences between them, and we have tried to create a common 'house' style. N.B. We have found a few mistakes in the L.A. 1949, the L.U., and Divinumofficium.com.

    While our type-setting is all proofread, I cannot guarantee our resources are without error. The good news is as of this week, I have gained another proof-reader and he is very pedantic.

    When I have used other resources they are referenced in each .pdf.
    Thanked by 2bonniebede CHGiffen
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    Tomjaw, can you send me a list of errata at divinumofficium.com, please, if you have not already submitted them? Typos and the like can be fixed rather quickly, although errors in the "computus" take a little longer...
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    From Webster's online dictionary: Definition of PEDANTIC
    1
    : of, relating to, or being a pedant (see pedant)
    2
    : narrowly, stodgily, and often ostentatiously learned
    3
    : unimaginative, dull
    — pe·dan·ti·cal·ly adverb

    It may be better to refer to a proofreader as "careful," "precise," or even "good," unless he really is a pedant.
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    "My experience (OF Vespers in the vernacular): vocal participation of the people is essential for the parts that pertain to them"

    Sam, could you say more about that? You've made those beautiful booklets with square notation -- do the people sing their dialogue parts straight from those? Are they expected to sing Gloria Patri's? and psalm verses in alternatim with the choir? Is the "Hymn" at the beginning expected to be a "congregational hymn" of the Gather variety, or do you expect them to sing, say, verses of the given hymn proper to the day in alternatim with the choir?

    I've been approached to assist with an OF Vespers in English on All Souls. The DM has already planned it. It appears from the DM's general description that it doesn't follow an EF or OF structure at all.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 998
    You've made those beautiful booklets with square notation -- do the people sing their dialogue parts straight from those?

    For OF vespers in the vernacular I always use modern notation. Here in the Netherlands, it's highly unusual to use square notation for vernacular chant, and we have a solid 50 years' tradition of modern notation using round note heads. For Latin chants however, I always use square notation, and people sing straight from that.

    Are they expected to sing Gloria Patri's? and psalm verses in alternatim with the choir?
    The people sing the psalm verses in alternatim with the choir, including the Gloria Patris.

    Is the "Hymn" at the beginning expected to be a "congregational hymn" of the Gather variety, or do you expect them to sing, say, verses of the given hymn proper to the day in alternatim with the choir?

    I use a simple hymn melody, mostly syllabic, based on hymns from the Liber Hymnarius. The entire congregation sings this hymn straight through, or in alternatim with the choir if the hymn is quite long. Happily, the hymns in the Dutch LotH are faithful translations of the Latin originals. I never use modern hymn melodies.

    Here's a booklet for OF vespers in Dutch with Adoration and Benediction for Christ the King, so you can see.

    (PS. It's Steven...)
    KG-Vespers-ChristusKoning.pdf
    1M
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Daniel Bennett Page
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    Dear Fr. Krisman

    Our new proofreader is a good friend, we have been singing together (and drinking afterwards) for many years. He volunteered in the pub after we sang Mass Monday night, and yes he is a pedant. He also umpires cricket matches...

    @ Andrew Malton PM sent, with corrections to follow as I find them.
    Thanked by 2ronkrisman Andrew_Malton
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    To cross the Atlantic, an ocean gigantic,
    By means of a skiff or canoe:
    It may be pedantic, though never semantic,
    To know how to swim ‘ere you do.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen tomjaw bonniebede
  • Thomas_Mary
    Posts: 73
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