"Gloria Patri" texts set to Anglican chant--fully pointed?
  • Heath
    Posts: 966
    We sing the Gregorian communions each week with verses interspersed; before the final repetition of the antiphon, we sing a Gloria Patri fauxbourdon.

    For the sake of variety (and curiosity), I'd love to mix in these Gloria Patri texts set to Anglican chant. I *could* teach the choir to read the notation on its own terms, but I would be thrilled if I could find some of these fully written out somewhere.

    Does anyone have some settings ready to go? Ideally, in settings compatible with all eight church modes. ; )
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,610
    Heath,

    Anglican chants are whole unto themselves, meaning that they are not written to be compatible with all eight church modes.

    I have no support for this, but believe in my heart that they were developed partly to abandon the tricky-for-all process of have multiple melodic endings for the choir to learn so that the first note matches the end and the last note of the GP then lands on the first note of the antiphon.

    Ben Yanke in his wonderful youthful zeal will probably will argue with me on this, and that's fine, but to teach the average choir that when A = 4, B = 1, then you sing C which starts with B and ends with A (this really reminds me of:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWaJ0sy03g

    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • donishler
    Posts: 5
    It is true that Anglican Chants are 'whole unto themselves', although they evolved from the eight modes.

    Historically I think it's probably more accurate to say that Anglican Chants were developed in the 17th Century as a way to beautify Cathedral music, primarily Evensong where a lengthy portion of the Psalter was appointed. Antiphons before and after the psalms had been dropped in the 16th Century English Reformation as part of the simplification of worship, to encourage congregational participation.

    That being said, there are a host of Anglican Chants available from various sources, and with some diligent searching you should be able to find chants that are compatible with the Communions that you sing, in whichever mode they happen to be.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,410
    Don is right. It is not at all difficult to find a chant in a major or minor key that will complement an antiphon or a psalm tone in almost any mode. One just needs to do a little experimenting.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,610

    Correct if I am wrong, and if so my post above is inaccurate, but with Gregorian Chant Psalm Tones the endings are multiple so that the last note of the tone is the same as the first note of the antiphon, the last note of the antiphon is the same as the first of the psalm, making them "compatible with all eight church modes. ; )".

    If Heath does not require that, then could you give some concrete examples of matching anglican chants to gregorian chant modes? This might help people (me, included) who are shaky or totally in the dark as far as doing anything but matching a key of an AC to the pitch of an Antiphon, which is not what you are suggesting.

    How do you match a made that is not modern major or minor with AC? Thanks!
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,410
    Good question, Noel.
    I'll provide some guides this evening when I have more time.
    This is really not difficult.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen noel jones, aago
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    We can say in theory that this music will never match with this music, but it's a case by case issue. If a specific Anglican chant sounds good with a specific chant, go right ahead and use it. The goal is not to slavishly follow musical "rules" that don't really mean anything, the goal is to make beautiful music. If it sounds good to your ears as a musician, go ahead.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,189
    We
    You can say in theory that this music will never match with this music

    Fixed.
    Thanked by 2Ben Gavin
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    True true, Chuck.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    As I believe I've said elsewhere, I have no problem using fauxbourdon or Anglican-chant for verses. As long as it's because you've had a legitimate diet of psalmtones and are looking for variety. Doing so before that point is - in my view - similar to avoiding incense, devotions, Mary, the Roman canon, etc.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,610
    The goal is not to slavishly follow musical "rules" that don't really mean anything, the goal is to make beautiful music. If it sounds good to your ears as a musician, go ahead.


    Ben, if this were "true true", then there would be no reason to ever take music theory classes, composition classes, counterpoint classes or any kind of instruction in the structure of music. Composers must work within a tightly regulated framework with occasional "aberrations" that push the envelope to make music that is beautiful.

    That's exactly why there are multiple endings to match Gregorian psalmtones to antiphons - any psalmtone in a matching key or related key could be substituted but without matching notes, cantors would be thrown for a loop.

    This would be worse than a non-rhyming verse.

    MJO, when he goes through to find some matching AC is going to be using his musical judgement to find ones that work - judging using written and unwritten rules that will guide him in what works and what does not work and sound beautiful.

    Sounding good to your ears only works when your ears are coupled to the rational parts of the brain that are capable of analyzing musical structure based upon training, be it in class or the school of hard knocks of listening, listening and then more listening.

    If we decided to stop slavishly following music "rules" that don't really mean anything...well, that's already been done and we are all wearing the t-shirt.

    Sons of God, KumBaYah...beautiful music to some musician's ears, including some very, very talented and educated ones.

    The rules all mean something.
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen
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