Hymns: Repertoire and Frequency
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    Two questions for everyone:

    1. What is the total number of hymns that your parish uses in a year?

    2. How much repetition does each hymn get throughout the year?

    For my purposes, a "hymn" is anything listed in a hymnal; even Taize antiphons like Eat This Bread.

    We use a three-hymn sandwich, so I have one fewer slot to program hymns. Last year, 2013, I used 134 different ones through the year, with 3 hymns per mass, most of the time, with no more than 3 repeats for any hymn. Is this large? Small? Average? My pastor would like more repetition and less innovation, and this year (2014) I've only used about 100 different hymns so far, and I'm going to have to reuse hymns to keep the number lower.

    There's a difference, of course, between once-a-year hymns (O Come All Ye Faithful) or once/twice a season hymns (People Look East), but I am generally concerned with Ordinary Time. On that count, last year I used 90 hymns in OT, and this year so far I've used 50. There have already been a few that I've used 2 or 3 times, and I want to get the right balance between familiar and not-boring.

    Does anyone else keep records like this? Is anyone willing to compare notes with me?
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I do not keep records on this but I can say that I will cycle between certain hymns after the Proper Antiphon and only if time permits for communion like: Taste and See (Hurd); Soul of My Savior; Panis Angelicus; Humbly Lord We Worship You; Lord, I am Not Worthy; and the like.
    For Offertory, after the Proper Antiphon I always try to sing a hymn that relates to the antiphon or one of the readings or psalm.
    Again, after the Proper Antiphon I will sing an Entrance Hymn based on the readings or the antiphon.
    And at the recessional we will rotate between Holy God, We Praise Thy Name; Now Thank We All Our God; or something of that nature.

    I always find a way to do the Marian Antiphon of the season. Usually as a meditation after communion but sometimes at the recessional.

    This is for OT during the Seasons they will be all seasonally based.
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    Right---my point is that by programming hymns to support the Lectionary, we have to use a larger (and therefore, less familiar and less sung) number of hymns.

    I don't want my parish to devolve into a vicious circle of 25 hymns only, but I do want people to feel like they get to hear their favorites occasionally.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I don't want my parish to devolve into a vicious circle of 25 hymns only, but I do want people to feel like they get to hear their favorites occasionally.


    Sometimes it depends on what Hymnal you have: We have Adoremus (First Ed.), which when it came out was the only traditional style hymnal for the Novus Ordo that didn't fiddle with texts and things, thanks to Cal Shenk, Kurt Poterack, Susan Treacy, and Kathy Pluth. But during the loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong string of Per Annum in the summer, when you're stuck doing a four-hymn sanny, Every Day it can get tiring repeating the same things over again. When we were contemplating switching to a new hymnal from New St. Basil, it was suggested to go to the Hymnbook 1982 or 1940. Unfortunately, I wasn't the musical head honcho at the time or I would have insisted on one of those two books.

    It's only the Fourth week after Pentecost and with daily Masses with hymns, it can be difficult to find really appropriate hymns for the Lectionary, and I feel like I'm constantly falling back on the same old standbys: If I have to play LOBE DEN HERRN one more time before Advent I think I might puke. (Which is a shame, because it's actually quite a good hymn.)
  • lmassery
    Posts: 424
    I did around 150 different songs last year - I counted recently. There are a handful of gold standards that I use around 4 or 5 times a year, such as Alleluia! Sing to Jesus. I too use a communion antiphon frequently. So far I've never gotten a complaint for using a gold standard hymn too many times.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    I use 50 or so hymns that are not used for Advent, Christmas, Lent or Easter. The total, including those seasonal hymns would be in the 80 to 100 range. These are from Ritual Song. We are examining hymnals for purchase, but are waiting to see the Lumen Christi hymnal before making a decision.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    hmmm, we sing a lot of SLJ and such stuff...so lots of hymns (that all sound like the same hymn) Only joking, its not quite that bad.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    At the moment I'm repeating a lot of hymns to build the congregation's repertoire. When I started the year, I would use both "See Us Lord, About Thine Altar" and "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence" ever week for about 6 weeks to make sure that the congregation knew both well. Then I alternated between the two and added another hymn, I think it was "Soul of My Saviour." After Easter, I started using "Alleluia, Sing to Jesus" and I'm looking to add another Eucharistic hymn to the repertoire. Now that the congregation knows the hymns well, they sing up. For about 4 years there were mostly various groups singing various sacro-pop songs that no-one really knew, so I've almost had to start from scratch.

    I'm looking to add "O God Unseen Yet Ever Near" to the repertoire of communion hymns, but I might be doing "The Lord's My Shepherd" before that.

    I find that congregations don't mind repeating hymns (in fact they love it) as long as you vary the selection from week to week and don't just do all the same hymns 3 weeks in a row.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    (grr ... multiple post)
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    If I have to play LOBE DEN HERRN one more time before Advent I think I might puke. (Which is a shame, because it's actually quite a good hymn.)

    For variety, you might wish to give these 6 harmonizations of LOBE DEN HERREN a try.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Salieri
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    I pretty much agree with most of above - about 100 to 150 (four hymn sandwich liturgy) is just about right.

    When I first came on board here, we were singing a lot from the PBC and we were doing Latin ordinaries, and that got totally quashed by the (incoming) administration and banned, so I moved onto SEP, then that got quashed except for prior to communion hymn (song), then that got quashed, and then a music committee was put in place and I had no more power to choose anything without being by committee vote so almost all sacred music disappeared. Now the program is almost entirely the most banal music you can imagine except for an occasional (traditional) hymn but with very banal words from Gather 4 and at about 200% tempo, so no one bothers to sing much as they can't keep up with the horse race. Now I just pray the rosary that Jesus will come back soon.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen teachermom24 expeditus1
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    We only use vernies (vernacular hymns) before and after mass.
    So, with two slots, I'd say we only use about 30 hymns outside of the Advent, Christmastide, Lent, and Eastertide.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Praise to the Lord, the Almighty is one I try to limit to once every 4-6 weeks during ordinary time if I can help it.
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    @francis. sounds heart breaking. How many on the committee? Have you enough supporters to infiltrate the committee and take it over? Can you leave and join another parish? Can you sing decent music for Vespers or Benediction, or some other less controversial timeslot on the grounds of being inclusive and having something for everyone and getting those musical traddies off the pastors back?
    Can you start a children's schola?
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    We use a lot more hymnody in the summer.

    Assuming your parish has a decent organ and people actually sing, you should be singing "All my hope on God is founded" (MICHAEL)! Howells did a nice job bridging the gap between traditional hymnody and newer stuff without going all schlocky ENGELBERG on us, pax Stanford.
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    ENGELBERG is schlocky? Them's fightin words!

    Thanks for the responses---I was just curious about parish practices in other places.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Well...

    "Oh look, it's [name some musical event where lots of people get together]! What can we all sing that is decent music and sorta self-congratulatory? [*crickets*][*then all together*] WHEN IN OUR MUSIC GOD IS GLORIFIED!!!!! YESSSSSS!!!!!!"

    Thus has played any ecumenical musicians' thing I've been a part of...
    Thanked by 2rogue63 Gavin
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    I don't know how this would work in a Catholic setting, but at the Presbyterian church I work for they are doing a summer hymn sing. Before I came along the people would just call out whatever hymn they wanted that day, but this time we had them send in their requests ahead of time. We got forty different responses, so we picked three from that list for each Sunday and programmed them through the rest of the summer.
    Perhaps you could do something similar, if only to get an idea of what hymns are most popular, then fit them in where they are appropriate. I also added a hymn and used it for my postlude, in the hopes that maybe someone will recognize it and say "hey I liked that!" And maybe they will want to sing it eventually.
    Thanked by 1rogue63
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    We only use 1-3 hymns per Mass (depending on the Mass), so some very popular hymns might only get used once or twice per year.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    We had a hymn sing a few years ago. It was not at mass, but at a social gathering in the parish dining hall. We asked the people to submit names of their favorite hymns in advance and we sang as many as possible.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • G
    Posts: 1,401
    some very popular hymns might only get used once or twice per year


    Well then, that's much greater frequency than many very popular Gospel pericopes get, (don't get me started on the lectionary cycle,) so fans of those hymns are lucky indeed.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    When you're asked to dish up 4/5-hymn sandwiches each week it is difficult to make a good spread of selection. My rough guide is:

    Processionals/Recessionals: As appropriate to liturgical season
    Offertory/Communion: Related to Gospel OR General Eucharistic

    For Example, on Easter IV "Good Shepherd Sunday"

    Entrance: Easter Glory Fills the Sky (LLANFAIR)
    Offertory: Hail Redeemer, King Divine (REX)
    Communion: The Lord's My Shepherd, I'll Not Want (CRIMOND)
    Thanksgiving: Soul of My Saviour (ANIMA CHRISTI)
    Recessional: Holy God, We Praise Thy Name (GROSSER GOTT)

    I've started to chant the Communion Antiphon in English each week before going into the hymn, sometimes with a psalm verse and glory be aswell. Given time I hope to gradually introduce singing some SEP Communios.
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