Sacred Music for Dummies
  • teachermom24
    Posts: 327
    Would someone please write this book? I want to give it to people, like our DFF, who have a sincere love of God and the Eucharist, and who would be open to true sacred music if it could just be simply spelled out for them. I tried, and failed, to explain this to her in a conversation earlier this week, but it devolved into one opinion against another. A simple, straightforward book that answers basic questions put in the hands of those with "ears to hear" would be a great thing. We need a statement that keeps sacred music above style, period composed, personal taste, language.

    What is sacred music by definition?
    What is NOT sacred music by definition?
    What can be sacred music?
    What cannot be sacred music?
    What instruments are/are not proper to sacred music? Why?

    Things like that . . .
    Has it been written? If not, who will write it? I bet you could sell a lot of copies.

    Kathy
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,985
    I think something like this needs to come from the USCCB with Vatican approval. It will never happen because the USCCB cannot write anything short, simple, to the point, and with fewer than 20,000 words. We can't have the laity understand it, can we? LOL.
  • G
    Posts: 1,401
    A start, sorry about the unformatted links.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)

    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/7869/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-girm/p1

    http://www.google.com/url?q=http://media.musicasacra.com/pdf/smfaq.pdf&sa=U&ei=dru-U5S7FIamyATykIHoCw&ved=0CAsQFjAA&sig2=bE1n51kgqL06NhqxPKNlBw&usg=AFQjCNGdP55Y7wJuLHa0ihOjq5oHLIUrRw

    http://www.google.com/url?q=http://musicasacra.com/about-cmaa/faq/&sa=U&ei=dru-U5S7FIamyATykIHoCw&ved=0CBAQFjAC&sig2=YTOf2tZwFURz7OO218FmKg&usg=AFQjCNEACIJqsMKWTZ5TKQ5bTasEmkwFjg

    Thanked by 2kenstb teachermom24
  • jczarn
    Posts: 65
    Here are some cleaner links for those last two:
    http://media.musicasacra.com/pdf/smfaq.pdf
    http://musicasacra.com/about-cmaa/faq/
    Thanked by 1teachermom24
  • teachermom24
    Posts: 327
    Yes, that FAQ page has a lot of good information but it really is directed to the church musician. I'd like to see something written for the youth leaders and PIPs, something simple and direct for people who don't read (much). One thing the DFF said about perpetuating LifeTeen music is she wants to "meet them where they're at." I'd like some short, pithy piece on sacred music that meets her "where she's at"--a sincere heart but very confused regarding sacred music.

    Maybe what I need to do is take the FAQ and write up my idea myself.

    Kathy
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Without any snark intended, SING LIKE A CATHOLIC, fulfills some of the basics and points enough ways to documents that need to be known.
    And there's something about the Dummies franchise that even if we borrowed another similar term, that is unbecoming. I would look to something like Jimmie Akin's MASS CONFUSION as a funnier hook title.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,333
    I don't think "meet[ing] them where they're at" is a completely terrible idea.

    What IS a terrible idea is meeting them where they're at, and (once you've got them) then continuing to play sacropop every week while teaching them nothing about sacred music. If you don't teach them any better and then stay with the Lifeteen nonsense for years and years, you haven't achieved much in terms of education, edification, and sanctification.

    If they're at Point A, meet them there. Fine. Don't leave them there forever! You need to be trying to get them to Point Z!

    Maybe you won't achieve a church full of bona fide saints who listen to/sing Gregorian chant and Palestrina every week (Point Z).

    If you only make it to Point R with a church full of Catholic Christians striving (and failing often) for holiness who listen to/sing some sturdy hymns, some Gelineau psalmody, some Latin polyphony mixed with mainly English anthems, frequent use of the organ and the SEP, you will have done pretty well. Meeting people where they're at isn't the worst first step in the world. It is, however, a pretty pitiful final step. Once you've met them where they're at, what do you do then? That's the most important question, in my opinion.
    Thanked by 2teachermom24 gregp
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Here is a great article that should be read by everyone including your Pastor (IMHO)

    http://www.ccwatershed.org/media/pdfs/14/06/15/16-28-51_0.pdf
  • teachermom24
    Posts: 327
    Once you've met them where they're at, what do you do then?


    Precisely! The DFF, and so many like her, equate sacred music with Gregorian chant. She said, personally she likes "sacred music" but that's not "where they are at". So I thought of this idea to have something in writing that could help those who have the heart for it to move from A toward Z because they have NO idea what it means to move beyond A. For them there's LifeTeen "music" and for others "traditional". They think anything you sing in church or has the word "God" in it is by definition sacred. So much confusion!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    Here is my attempt:

    www.romancatholicsacredmusic.com/wswbsnB2.pdf

    However, I no longer encourage attempting to 'save' the NO, so it is a dated book.
    Thanked by 1teachermom24
  • teachermom24
    Posts: 327
    Thank you for sharing that document, Francis. That is immensely helpful!

    I no longer encourage attempting to 'save' the NO


    What do you mean by that? That we who find ourselves in the NO don't try to bring about change for the good? I can understand that thinking if that's what you mean. I have given up on looking for this in our parish and simply offer our music with a prayer that it will be for God's glory and that our offering be acceptable in His sight. All depends on the priest in charge--only the priest can 'save' the Mass, NO or otherwise.

    So, I'm not out to save the NO, just individuals whose hearts are in the right place as is our DFF's.
    Thanked by 1Paul F. Ford
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    teachermom:

    For details, visit the thread, 'the suicide of altering the faith in the liturgy' on a forum near you.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,333
    Maybe I should have asked this earlier, but what's a "DFF?"
    Thanked by 1francis
  • G
    Posts: 1,401
    Director of faith formation, (I had to look it up)

    Save the Liturgy Save the World!
    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Kathy,

    Here's a start

    Sacred Music has several components which are necessary. Having only one of them doesn't qualify music as "sacred".

    First, a sacred text must be used -- so, good as it is, the organ postlude you loved last week isn't Sacred Music.

    A sacred text is a text from the official prayer of the Church. The text could be one of the psalms from Vespers, or a pericope from the Gospels, but these are just examples.

    Second, the music must exhibit a not-merely-national appeal. "God save the Queen" is a fine text, and the British Empire doesn't end at the borders of Albion, but neither qualifies the tune to which this text is sung "sacred": it is, by its nature, national in character.

    Third, the music must be of excellent craftsmanship. Traditionally, the Church in the west has welcomed Gregorian Chant,
    Thanked by 1teachermom24
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,092
    "the music must exhibit a not-merely-national appeal"
    This.
    I'm agitating for the use of the term "Caesar Sunday" for the Sunday closest to July 4th. (This feast is celebrated at different times in other countries.) It's when we come together to sing our praises of the State.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,985
    I am fine with singing, "America the Beautiful" as a recessional near July 4th. Last time I looked, there were two flags down front, a U.S. flag and a Vatican flag. Churches exerting a godly influence on the state would be a very good thing and just might lead to a few solutions to some long-standing problems.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Churches exerting a godly influence on the state would be a very good thing


    Seems to work out well in the Middle East.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Cute, Gavin, but those entities you quip about aren't churches. The Church from the Mediteranean through the Indian sub-continent to Oceanic lands suffers daily as our Lord continues to as well from those entities.
    Thanked by 4CharlesW Spriggo irishtenor StimsonInRehab
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,985
    I mean influence, as in the gospel admonition to be a leaven in society for its greater good. The Middle East is dominated by a radical religion that wants to suppress any person or entity not in agreement with it.
  • teachermom24
    Posts: 327
    So what is the term used for all other music at Mass that is not sacred (hymns, choir anthems, solos, songs, preludes and postludes)? Is it just called "church music" or "religious music"? I want to know because this has to be part of the discussion in selecting appropriate music for Mass, and when we have weddings, do we just distinguish between secular and religious music?
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Teachermom,

    "Below" Sacred Music does come a category of stuff called Religious Music. "Church Music" is an expression which tries to encompass both Sacred Music and Religious music, and has tried to do so since long before the 4-hymn sandwich was served on the deli bar.

    What is "appropriate" for Mass? That's not too hard, but is much harder in the age of what Ben Yanke calls optionitis.

    Before: sing the text of the introit, using the Gregorian melody

    or

    sing the text of the introit, using psalm tones


    or


    sing the text of the introit, polyphonically set.

    or

    at low Mass, the priest speaks the introit, and no music exists.


    After: read the GIRM. There are four options, one of which is a hymn or similar song which in some mysterious way relates to the texts or theme of the Mass, if I recall correctly.


    Before: Mass was theocentric, and celebrated in a theocentric fashion.

    After: the "needs" of the pastoral community must be taken in to account, and active participation, about which someone else will rant, is to be considered above all else. I suppose a reasoned (but not necessarily reasonable) approach could say the following: "I live in a Polish-American parish, and since Poland is under the thumb of the meanies at the Kremlin, all the music at Mass must be focused on the liberation of our homeland, but must take into account that we live in the era of Civil Rights, and so "We shall overcome" will appear throughout the Easter season."
    Thanked by 1teachermom24
  • teachermom24
    Posts: 327
    What I'm struggling with is how to talk about what is appropriate music at Mass. I'm serious about writing a brief, pointed summary of what does and what does not belong at Mass. I'd like to say all the music should be "sacred music" but that's too far from "where we're at" :-) I want to show there is an objective standard we should be looking at when evaluating and choosing music for Mass. So I want to know what terms to use and how to express that.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    This really may be better as a web document giving maybe youtube examples of what is sacred, and what is secular music with religious words - and explaining the difference...

    Followed up with a test that they could take, playing segments and let them, through something like Jotform, answer the questions, make their own comments and then automatically sending you a copy for tabulating the response.

    This could be a very useful, viral tool. I would be very pleased to help if needed. My email is on my profile.

    SING LIKE A CATHOLIC is a tremendous resource, and not just because a chapter is about me....
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    The book you want has already been written by Ben Whitworth and Published by Catholic Truth Society UK.
    http://www.ctsbooks.org/music-in-the-liturgy
    It is well written, directed at non specialists, informative, readable, short, cheap to buy... and excellent.
    I tend to buy a few copies at a time and give them away to any church musician I encounter.
    cheap enough to give a copy to everyone in the choir on a study day.
    I really recommend it.
    not sure how to access it from the US, but I think CTS might send it to you, especially if you wanted a few. it is available on amazon .com but at a silly price.
    Thanked by 5SrEleanor teachermom24 Ben_Whitworth CHGiffen Jenny
  • Ben_WhitworthBen_Whitworth
    Posts: 90
    Thank you, Bonniebede! I am delighted that Music in the Liturgy is proving useful in exactly the way I hoped it would. I asked the publisher about ordering the booklet from the US, and
    people can order it from our website: http://www.ctsbooks.org/music-in-the-liturgy for just over 4$ + shipping. Or they can e-mail ["orders" email address here] to find out about ordering in bulk.

    Ignatius Press distribute some CTS titles in the US, but not this one ... yet (watch this space!).
    Thanked by 2bonniebede teachermom24
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    Also, the UK branch of Amazon has a few copies in stock at a reasonable price.
    Thanked by 1Ben_Whitworth
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    @Ben can you make this available for paid download?
    Thanked by 1Ben_Whitworth
  • Ben_WhitworthBen_Whitworth
    Posts: 90
    @donr, not at present, but I'll mention that idea to CTS.
    Thanked by 1bonniebede
  • Ben_WhitworthBen_Whitworth
    Posts: 90
    My booklet was commissioned and edited by that wonderful writer Stratford Caldecott, who died yesterday. Please remember him and his family in your prayers.
    Thanked by 1donr
  • G
    Posts: 1,401
    Done

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    Thanks Ben, for the work you did on this, its really excellent and useful.
    I think many here will have been blessed by Stratford's work in one way or another. Ar dheis Dei go raibh a anam.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Ach, Lassie, give us Celt's inheritors a break, and translate the Gallic.
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    Ar dheis Dei go raibh a anam
    At the right (hand) of God may be his soul




    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Ben_WhitworthBen_Whitworth
    Posts: 90
    Just to reply quickly to donr's enquiry above:
    can you make this available for paid download?

    The CTS replies:
    it is something we are looking into but there is no date for it.

    Thanked by 2bonniebede donr
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