So why wouldn't you teach a student the fullest expressive capabilities of a well-built instrument, which they could then scale back depending on the limitations of what they have? I don't see what you're disagreeing with here, unless you think that it's a good idea to limit an organist's education.

Obviously, but the discussion here was about teaching organists, and appropriate instruments for use in an organist's education. It seems to me that a good organist should know the fullest possibilities of their art, but also how to scale these back in ways that make the best of bad situations.

I came from somewhere small that didn't have many good instruments. Limiting somebody's education because their present circumstances might not allow them to use everything that you teach them is myopic behaviour and truly small-town thinking. It also doesn't do anything for the local organ scene: when that once-in-a-decade opportunity to install something good comes up, there won't be enough people who know what that 'good' is supposed to look, feel and sound like!

That, to my mind, makes it all the more important, CharlesW! Problems in technique take a long time to correct, once they're ingrained. Best to get it right from the start.

The university I attend added organ as an option this last year, thanks to our Orchestra director. His requirement is that a potential student can play a two-part Bach invention and/or passed the piano techniques courses (which is very basic). None of the studio plays organ as a first instrument, and most of us weren't the greatest at piano (the studio thus far has been a trumpet player (me), a horn player, a percussionist, a non-major 'cellist, and a flutist/vocalist), but basic knowledge really helped.

We do most of our lessons in one of the Lutheran churches, and occasionally the Episcopal church (Organ prof is UCC/Episcopal), which are both digital (but voiced nice). I've personally been able to practice in one of the Catholic Parishes (there's two, but only one has an organ), which, from what I can tell, has the only pipe organ in town (besides the never-used rotting one the university owns), but we have traditional priests, who like to lots of daily masses and Adoration, so it's hard to get in there to practice.

None of the studio plays organ as a first instrument, and most of us weren't the greatest at piano (the studio thus far has been a trumpet player (me), a horn player, a percussionist, a non-major 'cellist, and a flutist/vocalist), but basic knowledge really helped.

Bravo!

When I was in college I received all the organ scholarships, since I was the only organ major on campus. The praise band folks suffered no lack of aspiring musicians.

I bet the praise band scholarships included cars, free meals and free tutoring, just like the football team. Sorry you had to miss out on all that.

If, as I suspect, much of this will be online, he would have to teach some techniques without being able to really demonstrate them.

Glad you mentioned this - without going into details, this is no longer an obstacle. We'll see how the students do and hopefully they will post their impressions both positive and negative here for the whole world to see.

I'd like to encourage anyone who has ever wanted to play the organ to take all of this with a grain of salt. As we can see there is a lot of attitude, and I am including myself as having one. The best teachers I have ever had are ones who were dying to share their knowledge. The worst were ones who had the knowledge but wanted to use it only to impress others with their own exalted station in life.

Would I undertake teaching an organist how to play the Fantasia and Fuge on BACH by Franz Liszt? Never. I do not have the ability to teach an organist how to play that piece. I have performed it - there's an LP of it in the New York Public Library of my performance if you want verification, a performance that got me hired to perform at a national AGO convention.

I'm a somewhat above-average organist, but I work with organists who are far, far superior to me, which is humbling and, at the same time, thrilling.

The organ is truly one of the easiest instruments to play. Anyone who tells you otherwise has their own agenda and I'd listen to them carefully - it's always interesting to see both sides of the coin in advance!

Organ technique is about so much more than putting notes down: it's not some kind of glorified computer keyboard. That's why I hate toasters - they reduce organ music to an up or down motion, failing to take into account that it's all about how the key is pressed and released that changes the sound.

Indeed so, but when I first expressed an interest many decades ago, the standard to start on the organ was typically grade III piano.

At that level the basis of decent piano technique is only just developing - an ability to play (mostly) the right notes at the right time, reasonable understanding of tempo, the ability to demonstrate some concept of phrasing and dynamics are all involved, but not a very great deal more. In the beginning stages we are dealing with mechanics and hand coordination and the ability to translate black and white dots into sounds.

Now I fail to see why the basic mechanics cannot be learned on almost any instrument. Would we lose some of the more refined/advanced elements if all we has was a Casio squeak box? Sure, but absolute beginners don't want or need those complications of delicate adjustments in finger pressure at one end of the note or another; at that stage it's hard enough making the dots on the lines relate to where your fingers are supposed to be at any given point in time.

Being realistic any Church organist that has regular access to a beautiful tracker instrument is a rare and privileged beast - many more are likely to have a direct electric or pneumatic action to contend with if they get pipes at all.

From what I have read the proposed course is not intended to provide a conservatory level education, rather to enable those with more pedestrian capabilities and ambitions to be able to play the organ...

What does playing the organ mean? For some on this board perhaps it means Bach and Buxtehude followed by more Bach, played on a historically informed instrument in a splendid acoustic. For others maybe it's just getting through Sundays in a carpeted church on the crummy old Allen.

donr

I was the ULTIMATE organ dork. I used to wear patent leather cappizio dance shoes in college. But I was ALL GUY then and still am now. My wife will vouch for that one.

It is possible to play without organ shoes and I did it successfully for years. After you get used to wearing them, it is difficult to play without them. They are habit forming.

I often play in socks.

Be my guest:

Actually, I was exaggerating. I do not 'often' play in socks. I only play in socks when I do not have my shoes, which used to be more often when I lived in a city where I unexpectedly sat down to a console. Here not so much the case, so socks are not that often employed. However, I should mention that Fred (Flintstone) did not wear socks at all, so I do not understand the connection to the Flintstone Fugue. Can you elucidate?

..."Cameron Carpenter". I rest my case.
I would sooner watch a 3-hour "Best of Andre Rieu" special."

I agree! I'd sooner watch or listen to ANYTHING.

Cameron Carpenter pulled an incredibly self-indulgent stunt at a concert here in New York that nearly put me off organ recitals for life! He has great technical skill, but will turn off more potential friends of the organ than gain them with his ridiculous theatrics, frat-boy stunts, and (I believe) general contempt for audiences.

Gaudete in Domino Semper!

Yes, I would love to be a great organist playing some amazing instrument in a cathedral space, but I'm not. I'm a poor, voluntary musical contributor trying to raise the level of our parish game.

Many organists would love to have a great instrument in a great space. I am not complaining since my pipe instrument is average in a good space. My observation has been that a genuinely good and well-trained organist can take the small instrument or the "electric thing" and get decent results. The instrument may not be the greatest but the musicianship of the player shines through.