Custom or boutique hymnal
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    As we know, intrepid Noel Jones is working (at his age!) his derriere to make a viable option for the resurgence of the parish hymnal. I've actually done one of those back in the late 70's and 80's with copyright/royalties confirmed and paid. Not a lot of fun.
    We all know how much PD we can cull, and lest we forget, tons of Commons 3 stuff has been shared here, Cafe, privately, whatever.
    Here's the deal: some of us know that the loss of anything that is dubbed "sacropop" from such ventures is going to present a monumental obstacle to some parishes and their sensibilities. One might call this the "Vince Ambrosetti" solution.
    Many of us likely have such repertoire that we've composed that, for whatever reason, has never enjoyed the light of actual distribution to the Masses (another pun for Kathy.)
    What if we were to create a safe environment for sharing this sort of material, provided we are willing to put worthy "songs" into the commons for the purpose of diversifying to whatever necessary level a homegrown hymnal might require?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    A safe environment could be:

    Form a cooperative association (banning people who choose to denigrate those who use terms like "coop" or "co-op" as to preserve the sanity of all involved), accepting music, sign up as a publisher with OneLicense, twice a year they distribute the royalties to the publisher listing the pieces that were used and how often, the cooperative association distributes the proceeds, if any, to the copyright holder.

    Copyright holder may still provide them free under terms of Creative Commons 3.0 to anyone, but no one may publish it for profit unless they sign up with OneLicense or negotiate a private agreement with the original copyright holder.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Form a coop image
    Thanked by 4melofluent CHGiffen Adam Wood Gavin
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I give you Empress of the Puns of the Realm-Ms. Kathleen Pluth!
    I hope you've caught the ones I'm trying to "lay" here and there like eggs.....
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Is that the BIG3 eating the seeds with their feet on the ground and Adam speculating about the situation?
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Gavin
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Wattle we do about hymns?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I'll be saying this until they put me in the her's, it's not about the hymns, it's about Chanting-clear, I'm cock-sure of that!
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    The whole lot of you are CLUCKING INSANE!
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    Oooh nice coop.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Chicken Coupe?
    Chicken Coupe.jpg
    500 x 375 - 57K
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Nice would be a "Coupe de Ville."
    Not so nice, "a militry coup."
    Very nice, " a baby coo."
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdbrIrFxas0
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Best double entendre pun, ever! You da Queen.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    A custom hymnal can be good and perhaps this is a discussion for a new thread but doesn't a custom or parish hymnal encourage what I call the "pastoral" attitude, that places individual parish communities above the universalism of the Church? There's already too much "we don't sing that here" and "why haven't you done X hymn, its a parish favorite" going on. There's also the emphasis on learning the "parish repertoire." What about "Catholic repertoire" that we should ALL know? I think we need to agree on that first.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Not what The Big C started this about.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Hence I mentioned it might be a discussion for a new thread.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    CK,
    This is the new thread. I apologize for the humorous digression.
    But you need to think that I've already considered the local v. universal aspect vis a vis the implicit dynamic contrast between a "parish" and (were it to exist here) a sort of Canadian conference "universal" hymnal. I had already stated that material, both antiquated and fairly contemporary that enjoys PD status in extant approved RCC hymnals would be a primary font. I l also mentioned that the Commons 3 works of many of us in CMAA/CCW and elsewhere could be culled. The choice whether to use Bartlett, Ostrowski, OostZinner, Kelly, Weber or even more exotic sources still has as its unifying element "chant" as the musical medium. That reality will be constant whether one goes Big Three or Luminare or CCW or St. Michaels etc.
    What I'm proposing is whether there needs to be an accessible repository of, for lack of better term, "sacropop" compositions that would be in the commons as Noel outlined the process and obviously open to the scrutiny of us and the general public for that manner. Why? To fill any perceived need or vacuum from the loss of those V2 standards everyone bemoans here and related sites.
    How can I make an analogy. Easy. Those long enough of tooth who've dealt with OCP long enough will remember that when NALR was collapsing, they (being primarily the SLJ's and Carey Landry) withdrew their license agreement with OCP for one year of the yearly Music Issue. It was devastating for OCP and those who lived and died by "Glory and Praise to our God" but didn't have NALR product in their pews. What did OCP do? They sought out folks like Ken Medema and others, probably found out of the volumes available from St. Thomas More in England inasmuch as Owen Alstott's wife was Bernadette Farrell. Heck, Alstott himself beefed up that one year's issue with many compositions under the pseudonyms of "Jim Farrrell" and "Jim Anderson." Jim Farrell's "Sing a New Song to the Lord" was the ipso facto replacement player for the infamous "Sing a New Song" by the SLJ's. Anderson's Glory to God, "Gloria (clap clap), Gloria..." became a hit of its own during that year.
    Well, I have to believe (as I am among their number) that many of us have composed much better stuff over decades that could echo that experience and spread via our personal imprimaturs to whatever extent a local parish would require that sort of material present as options in their parish or diocesan hymnal.
    I've made this contention that the Big Three could easily make a ton of $ by doing this via specific contract as they have all the legal stuff, hardware and software to customize ideal hymnals for parishes and dioceses that would eliminate all the stuff Adam and Fr. Krisman are hashing out in another thread.
    To me it's all simple if you understand either methodology.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I don't think people want a better version of On Eagles Wings. They want On Eagles Wings. (Or whatever.)
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Adam, that's not even remotely related to what I'm proposing. Go back to square one and see if you can get the concept that the imagined "product" would only incur the costs of editing and setting music that doesn't require royalties.
    And besides, in the words of Mick Jagger regarding "people," "You can't always get what you want...but sometimes you get what you need."
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    I can't believe I know the words of Mick Jagger better than Charles does ;)
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I am a Beatle's guy ;-)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Adam, that's not even remotely related to what I'm proposing.


    I'm confused, then.

    What did OCP do? They sought out folks like Ken Medema and others, probably found out of the volumes available from St. Thomas More in England inasmuch as Owen Alstott's wife was Bernadette Farrell. Heck, Alstott himself beefed up that one year's issue with many compositions under the pseudonyms of "Jim Farrrell" and "Jim Anderson." Jim Farrell's "Sing a New Song to the Lord" was the ipso facto replacement player for the infamous "Sing a New Song" by the SLJ's. Anderson's Glory to God, "Gloria (clap clap), Gloria..." became a hit of its own during that year.


    I thought you were suggesting the production (or the creation of the means of production... repertoire, etc) of a hymnal (or other pew resource) that contained hymns in the commons (new and old), which could somehow replace or displace the current stuff. This would then be beneficial in that it would - (1) provide parishes with better literature, (2) be less expensive, and (possibly?) (3) be customizable at the parish level (via POD demand technology?).

    I have a number of points to raise in response to this idea, but apparently that isn't what you were getting at.

    I am not long enough in the tooth to know about what happened surrounding the fall of NALR, or what Catholic music culture was like at that time - so I don't really have the needed context to understand what is"simple" to you.

    I will say, though, after having spent a too-short month now attempting to sell pew books to people who both WANT and NEED them (and admit to such) but who still lack the ability, for one reason or another, to make a purchase, the task of liturgical renewal, or even incremental improvement, is anything but simple.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I know. I can tell you that you'll be happier by summer of 15.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    My response up above was to open the door to people who have written things that they are unwilling to give away...but Mr. C's way is infinitely better if possible.
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