Gloria without a Choir?
  • henry
    Posts: 244
    We sing the Gloria every Sunday, even when there's only a Cantor and Organist present. During the Summer months (and perhaps permanently), I would like to suggest to the Pastor that we only sing the Gloria at Masses with a Choir. Thinking along the lines of Musicam Sacram and "progressive solemnity." What is done at your parish?
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    That would be ill-advised. If the Mass calls for a Gloria (every Sunday outside of Advent and Lent, etc., etc.) it should be sung if at all possible.
    Thanked by 5Gavin CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn Ben kenstb
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Our choir is off once Ordinary Time returns. During the summer we speak the Gloria; so the only sung Mass parts become the Alleluia, Sanctus, Memorial Acclamation, and Agnus Dei (and the dialogues if perchance the celebrant chooses to sing them). We also sing three or four hymns.

    It's not ideal, of course (and it's not my call), but I have to grant that our small church has lower attendance during vacation season, so the effective singing of the Gloria by the congregation is not that reliable in the summer.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    ....who doesn't know how to sing the Gloria?
    Thanked by 4Jani M. Jackson Osborn Ben Casavant Organist
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    To speak the Gloria, uncommendable where musicians are present, even if they're PIPs capable of leading from the congregation. Period.
    Thanked by 5CHGiffen Richard Mix Gavin Continuousbass Casavant Organist
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    This doesn't really compute. You have a long-standing practice of singing Gloria with or without a choir and you now want to sing it only with a choir? Bully for your congregation that they can sing without a choir!!! Why would anyone want suddenly to silence their song? I, um, assume then that you will also be speaking the other hymns (you know, the ones in the hymnal) when the choir are not present. This would make equal sense. God is still God during the summer months. His praises should be no less fitting on account of it being summer. (Phooey on 'progressive' solemnity: it's a lame excuse for backsliding.)
    Thanked by 4Gavin CHGiffen donr kenstb
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Amen to MJO.

    ....who doesn't know how to sing the Gloria?


    ... said the guy who works for an Episcopalian parish. :-)

    Gavin, we're talking about Catholics here. Some people don't sing when the choir is off. (Some don't sing even when it's on.) Some don't sing without the reinforcement of neighbors singing (it's the smallest church in the diocese, as far as I know.) It doesn't mean they don't know how at all.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Still not getting it. I've maybe found two Catholic churches where the Gloria was ever recited - and in one, it was fixed in 3 months.

    Switch to the simplest Gloria they know over the summer, sure. Even if it's Mass of Creation. But don't give up on singing it.
    Thanked by 3Spriggo CHGiffen Adam Wood
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Do the Mode VIII Lee Gloria,
    Thanked by 2Spriggo Andrew Motyka
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Or the gloria from missa simplex by proulx No reason they couldn't sing either one of those.

    Or even the ICEL Gloria. I've seen that used many times even without a cantor.
    Thanked by 2Gavin Adam Wood
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Btw, progressive solemnity is the idea that you should do as much as possible when you are able, not that you should omit things for the sake of progressive solemnity itself when you are able to do them.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    If you're going to put the Gloria on hiatus during the summer months (so that clergy, musicians, parishioners or whoever can get to the golf course or beach 5 or 10 minutes earlier) with the excuse(?) that there aren't enough people there to sing it reliably(?), then it's no wonder Catholics Don't Sing. When the Gloria is prescribed, sing it, and keep on singing it whether everyone sings it or not.
    Thanked by 6Ben Spriggo M. Jackson Osborn Continuousbass Gavin melofluent
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    It reminds me of the time a celebrant wanted to cut a chanted Gloria because it would supposedly be too long. I was ready for him, having timed the duration of Gloria VIII at two minutes. Speaking it would save one minute. He relented.
  • aria
    Posts: 85
    keep on singing it whether everyone sings it or not


    YES! In fact, not singing the Gloria b/c there's not a full choir may actually give the PIPs the impression that they need a choir for it. One cantor and/or accompanist should be enough to get the people started. I know some might say, "But the people won't sing w/out being supported by a lot of voices...!" To that I say, "Their loss...".
    Thanked by 2chonak Casavant Organist
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I always tell the PIPs that they need to be the choir when I'm short of singers.
    They usually step it up a notch. Not a bad thing really.
    Thanked by 3melofluent CHGiffen Casavant Organist
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