Neumes or Modern Notation?
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    There was some encomium of Christopher Wren [edit: apparently embellished over time] that used the words "artificial" and "awful" in their 18c senses of 'artistic' and 'awe-inspiring'. But for your meaning Google ought to have suggested kunstvoll or künstlerisch instead.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Melo, if you meant to speak of "a people", then ein Volk is the word you want to use.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • Simon
    Posts: 153
    I was brought up learning that 'neumes' were the European regional stenographic type indications of the melody and its rhythm such as those of Sankt Gallen, Metz and others before square note notation was introduced. Was I misguided? Or did I miss something?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    From what I understand bothe are called 'neums'.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    A "square note" is just one neume - a.k.a. "punctum" - and since puncta tend to predominate in chant notation, the term "square note notation" (I love that almost redundancy) arose to describe, perhaps pejoratively, chant notation with that terminology. Chant notation features many, many neumes - not so with modern notation.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    RC, my last and eighth year of German was in 1972! Cut me some slack, Mensch! ;-)
  • ChantingOrgan
    Posts: 36
    You can give the choir neumes. Just never give the assembly neumes, always modern notation! There's not really a difference between the two, anyways.
  • PhatFlute
    Posts: 219
    It is more important for choir / cantor / schola to have neumes or for the people in the congo ?
    Ph
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    The congregation should usually use modern notation when singing chant, since so few of them have experience with neumes. In those situations, you may as well give the same to the cantor and choir.

    When the cantor and/or choir are singing chant without the congregation's voices, neumes are appropriate.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Square notes for typical dialogue responses, chant ordinaries and simple psalm responsories should not be considered out of bounds for congregations. People readily adapt to what they are given to read. How to follow square notes is self-evident for any literate and intelligent person. Reading them is uplifting. It is learning something new that isn't all that hard. It is to assimilate Catholic ways. It is getting reacquainted with an old friend. The only real obstacle is the unthinking and utterly useless person who isn't embarassed to make a scene over something so harmless and easily learnt. It isn't as though we are asking people to learn Iubilate Deo.
    Thanked by 3chonak CHGiffen Richard Mix
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    musical notation of any sort for the plebs? outrageous. just give them the words. They don't sing anyway, so why would they need music?
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    It is more important for choir / cantor / schola to have neumes or for the people in the congo ?

    image
    Thanked by 2francis MarkThompson
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Both, one but not the other, the other but not the one, or neither. Too much is made of all this, I think.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    The reason not to give square notes to the congregation is psychological (or pastoral, if you like), not musical.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    The reason not to give square notes to the congregation is psychological (or pastoral, if you like), not musical.


    I have an even better reason to not give the congregation neumes. The pastor said to not do it!
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    That falls under pastoral. Your pastor said so.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    You know how it goes, the pastor is always right. If in doubt, ask the pastor. ;-)
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Since I cannot be in Phoenix (car broke down).....
    Whether the reason is cited as psychological or pastoral, as in priest sez "no way," I don't see a rational objection to neumes for the congregation. We've used them for All Souls for years (we have to create worship sheet) and the issue is simply (particularly if you're using SEP, PBC, PBP, Meinrad etc.) following the melodic contour. In that light, without key signatures or multiple accidentals, it could be regarded as a better option for folks.
    Thanked by 2gregp Adam Wood
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    The congregation is a 'singing' congregation. All they need is up and down. Key sigs, time sigs, five lines, all unecessary. Chant is for singing... only... that is what the people do. Perfect match. Chuck the MN altogether and get them back to basics.
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