Wreckovation at University of Dayton to involve organicide?
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,069
    There was a link from Fr. Zuhlsdorf today regarding the renovation of the chapel at the University of Dayton. The most disturbing element is this: "The choir loft will be lowered, and the cast iron pillars holding it up removed, along with the church’s organ." I am guessing that this is not preparatory to installing a new and more splendid pipe organ. Is there anyone with connections there who knows what exactly is going on?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,171
    Jeffrey. I'm as appalled as you are. I have two sons and a daughter-in-law (she is also on the faculty at UD) who are UD graduates. One of the sons and the daugter-in-law met at UD and have settled in the area, living between Dayton and Cincy. I just sent links to some of this stuff to them.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I would NEVER be one to try to start a movement or anything ... but ... colleges and universities have been known to reverse decisions when a lot of people complain to them, be they alumni or not, and they tend to be very public relations focused.

    It's like your typical parish ... 5 or 10 people complain to Father about something, and now "We've got a problem" and need to rethink what they're complaining about ...
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,069
    From another commenter at Fr. Z.:
    It’s a 1924 Wangerin. A company based in Milwaukee that sold most of its instruments in the upper Midwest. But there was one at St. Vibiana’s in LA. Typically a big Romantic sound.
    Quite a number of these instruments have been restored and are still in use. You can listen to a 1926 Wangerin being played here: http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/6020

    But I don’t expect the vandals at Dayton to understand what they may have, or to take the necessary steps to determine the cost of a refurbishment/restoration.
    The new plans of course call for a large grand piano right down front, where the musicians can bask in the adulation of the crowd instead of singing for the glory of God. So there was obviously no consideration given to restoration of the organ.


  • lhouston58
    Posts: 52
    If this organ is worth saving, perhaps a new home.can be found for it.

  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    The choir loft will be lowered


    About time those elitists get down to ground level with the rest of us.

    Where we can appropriately focus on and adulate their human forms without being distracted by meditating on God's word.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    They need to have the "smell of sheep". It's the "Francis effect".
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,956
    About the only thing that would stop this, is if a large donor threatens to pull the plug on donations. The loss of money is about the only thing administrations will listen to.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    This appears to be the instrument in question. It's a whopper.

    P.S. Here's an exterior view of the Immaculate Conception Chapel.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    but ... colleges and universities have been known to reverse decisions when a lot of people complain to them, be they alumni or not, and they tend to be very public relations focused.


    I was thinking about what PGA said, and this may be one cause where "hashtag activism" might actually make a difference.

    Reminds me of the letter sent in 1971 by some of the greatest writers, musicians and artists ever produced by English society, begging Pope Paul VI not to ban the traditional Latin Mass. Among them were Agatha Christie, Malcom Muggeridge, the great classical pianist Vladimir Askenazy and Sir Colin Davis, conductor of the London Philharmonic.

    The story goes that when Pope Paul VI saw Agatha Christie's name among the signatories he granted the English Indult, since he was a great fan of her mystery novels.

    The text of the letter is worth reading, I think:

    If some senseless decree were to order the total or partial destruction of basilicas or cathedrals, then obviously it would be the educated - whatever their personal beliefs - who would rise up in horror to oppose such a possibility. Now the fact is that basilicas and cathedrals were built so as to celebrate a rite which, until a few months ago, constituted a living tradition. We are referring to the Roman Catholic Mass. Yet, according to the latest information in Rome, there is a plan to obliterate that Mass by the end of the current year. One of the axioms of contemporary publicity, religious as well as secular, is that modern man in general, and intellectuals in particular, have become intolerant of all forms of tradition and are anxious to suppress them and put something else in their place. But, like many other affirmations of our publicity machines, this axiom is false. Today, as in times gone by, educated people are in the vanguard where recognition of the value of tradition in concerned, and are the first to raise the alarm when it is threatened. We are not at this moment considering the religious or spiritual experience of millions of individuals. The rite in question, in its magnificent Latin text, has also inspired a host of priceless achievements in the arts - not only mystical works, but works by poets, philosophers, musicians, architects, painters and sculptors in all countries and epochs. Thus, it belongs to universal culture as well as to churchmen and formal Christians. In the materialistic and technocratic civilisation that is increasingly threatening the life of mind and spirit in its original creative expression - the word - it seems particularly inhuman to deprive man of word-forms in one of their most grandiose manifestations. The signatories of this appeal, which is entirely ecumenical and non-political, have been drawn from every branch of modern culture in Europe and elsewhere. They wish to call to the attention of the Holy See, the appalling responsibility it would incur in the history of the human spirit were it to refuse to allow the Traditional Mass to survive, even though this survival took place side by side with other liturgical reforms.


    More here.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Our new church needs an organ. Does some one have details on how I can acquire it?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,709
    Yet, according to the latest information in Rome, there is a plan to obliterate that Mass by the end of the current year. One of the axioms of contemporary publicity, religious as well as secular, is that modern man in general, and intellectuals in particular, have become intolerant of all forms of tradition and are anxious to suppress them and put something else in their place.


    and this:

    it seems particularly inhuman to deprive man of word-forms in one of their most grandiose manifestations. The signatories of this appeal, which is entirely ecumenical and non-political


    OK... read these words everyone. It was 'their' plan to obliterate that Mass. I agree that the population didn't want it, but we got it from the few. Call me a conspirator if you must. For those of us who think VII was a good-hearted intention and an "opening of the windows" to 'let fresh air into the church', think again.

    The "ecumenical spirit" is one that rails against the very Faith. However, I would totally disagree with the non-political part. Ecumenism is the facade under which the ultimate aim and goal is that of the new-global-political-system (New Age), and it is being brought to bear fully upon the roots of Christendom as we speak.

    The destruction of faith in all its elements continues. The removal of altar and instrument is just a symptom of the heart of the problem.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,956
    I agree that the old mass needed some revisions. Certainly, our relations with other religions also needed some work. The Church was still dealing with the world as if it was still governed by medieval monarchies. But Vatican II was what it was, and with the death of John XXIII, it fell into the hands of the most inept pope in history to complete and implement the Council. Does that mean I like the way everything turned out? No, but I have no way of changing it and neither does anyone else here.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,709
    No, but I have no way of changing it and neither does anyone else here.


    CORRECTION

    I and a host of others here do and ARE.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,956
    Didn't know that, Your Excellency Bishop of the Here and Now. LOL.

    We can improve the local level at our parishes - should add with our pastor's approval - but legal and legislative authority are not ours, and never will be unless someone here gets an episcopal ordination.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Even then it's really not except in a few small areas and in accord with Canon Law.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,956
    Bishops don't have as much practical authority as we would often think. On paper, they rule in their own dioceses. Practically, they can touch off revolt among the priests and discord among the paying customers. They have to choose battles wisely and music may not rate as the most important of issues.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    read these words everyone. It was 'their' plan to obliterate that Mass.
    That isn't quite what you have shown with the quote --
    The letter merely proves that the signatories of the letter heard that there was a plan to "obliterate" the Mass, not that such an intention actually existed.
    (Not saying it didn't, only that what the enemies of a project say is not completely convincing.)

    Save the Liturgy, Save the World!
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Yes, G, but even the most disinterested observer would agree ex post facto that their initial hunch was correct.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Yep. One bishop in PA found that out. He made angry all the people and the clergy, and became so deadlocked trying to get anything done that he resigned.

    That's why I laugh at the protesters who show up every now and then, wanting the Church to be more democratic, and wanting the "people to hold the power." Uh, you already pretty much do, in case you haven't noticed.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,004
    If one thinks Venerable soon to be Blessed Paul VI was the most inept pope in history, one must think history began a few generations ago.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,004
    Ah, yes, Bp Martino of Scranton....
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,956
    If one thinks Venerable soon to be Blessed Paul VI was the most inept pope in history, one must think history began a few generations ago.


    My history began a few generations ago - LOL. I will say that Paul VI was the most inept pope of my lifetime, so far. There is always room for someone to be worse, I suppose. I hope that doesn't come to pass.
  • lhouston58
    Posts: 52
    If they're set on getting rid of things, they should start with the wall-to-wall carpeting, and those chairs:

    http://thecatholicbeat.sacredheartradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ud-final-mass-photo.jpg

    I can't find any information about the U of Dayton Wangerin organ in the OHS database. I'm really more interested in the original organ in the chapel shown in this old photo:

    http://digital.udayton.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/archives/id/847/rec/3

    There's nothing in the database about that one either. The impost looks like a Koehnken & Grimm, but I wonder.
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    If they're set on getting rid of things, they should start with the wall-to-wall carpeting, and those chairs:

    http://thecatholicbeat.sacredheartradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ud-final-mass-photo.jpg



    The eye remains confused and the mind juggles itself trying to figure out just what's going on with the interior of this church. It's like every element is derived from an aesthetic foreign to anything around it.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,306
    I agree, ryand. It's a very sad picture in many ways.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,709
    ryand

    do a google on the term, 'diabolical disorientation'.
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    It just brings up photos of that sanctuary.
    Thanked by 2irishtenor francis