I was not.

I was not.

In the re-presentation of Christ's sacrifice?
When His suffering is inflicted anew on "the least of these"?

(Save the Liturgy, Save the World)

Well, I don't love the song, but I don't really have the aversion to it that many here do either. I really don't care much one way or another about it.

Like I said, we've not done it for at least the past 3 years, so when the pastor mentioned that someone asked for it, I said "Yeah, we can probably do it next year." I don't know whether I'll do it in subsequent years, as I only tend to think one year in advance.

At any rate, it's poetic license - just like the other examples I cited.

I haven't heard the Nestor piece and will take a look at it.

There is a decent arrangement of "Were you there?" by Bob Chilcott in Ash Wednesday to Easter for Choirs (OUP). SATB (div).

Here's a performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfuxg7mfnGg

PGA,

I'm with Francis on "Were You There?": for me, it only elicits a flat "no" and nothing more.

Although I'm not sure exactly what the basis for my reaction is, it's not simply the supposition/question form which -- as I heard just yesterday in the Improperia, for example -- can be used to great effect.

I don't know "Saw Ye My Savior", but the various versions of the lyrics I find more effective are those where the question does tend to invite, rather than to foreclose, a deeper participation, even if the question is ultimately unanswerable.

You were writing about a new organ some time ago. Would there be any recordings out there, by any chance? I wondered how it sounds in your space.

This is a silly thread.
However, I'm glad to be reminded of the hymn "Saw ye my Savior." It is beautiful.

pastor mentioned that someone asked for it,

Are the words that have killed music in the Catholic church.

Here might I stay and sing,
No story so divine;
Never was love, dear King,
Never was grief like Thine.
This is my Friend,
In whose sweet praise
I all my days
Could gladly spend.

And a happy Resurrection Day to you, too, francis!
Sounds like you need one.

We program it every Good Friday. It isn't my personal favorite, but it isn't horrible and certainly not the hill on which I would choose to die.

Via zikkaron, yep, we all are.

francis, you choose simply to dispute. Call a spade a spade.
Don't couch your rightful inclination to do so under dogmatic surety.

francis, if we lived in a perfect world I would dispute it as well. Although...if we lived in a perfect world...the event on Calvary wouldn't have been needed.

I choose to meet the congregation I serve where they are, and assist the pastor in slowly helping them grow in holiness and understanding. Rigorist attitudes are counterproductive to the goal of service to God's people. As usual...YMMV.

Were you there when the idiot ushers set fire to the mulch during the Easter Vigil?
Were you there when the organ blower refused to blow?
Were you there when the lead soprano had an Alzheimer's moment during the anthem?
Were you there during the worst electrical storm and power failure ever?
Were you there when the drunk wandered into the choir loft?
Were you there when the trumpet pipe dislodged a reed during the Vigil postlude?

Yes, I was there! It made me want to tremble, tremble, tremble.

Some days, that might have helped. Being pretty much a non-drinker, I don't have a lot of patience with those who overindulge. This guy was a genuine threat, so it was fortunate that we usually have off-duty police officers in attendance at many masses.

Wendi, I used to not worry so much about such things. Then a few years ago, someone walked into the local Unitarian church one Sunday and shot several people. There were casualties. I observe things more closely these days.

Charles, I can completely understand. We pay close attention as well, there have been a couple of mentally ill people who have come in to the church at various times. I try not to be in the building by myself as do the secretaries and the doors are all locked when we are by ourselves.

It's unfortunate that we have to take such steps, but we need to be prudent.

Has it occured to anyone but me that brother CDub's parody lyrics and the following anecdotes actually augers towards the legitmacy and immediacy of the austere, primativistic authenticity of the spiritual in question?
I can't remember any occasion where Berthier's "Jesus, remember me" is called to task for its appropriation (despite scriptural allusion) of St. Dismus. Well, how is its self-identification with the complicity of the crucifixion all that different. And Lord knows, there are a thousand thousand such stories as Liam's (i've seen them for 44 years on San Pablo Avenue in Oakland and Richmond, and even here in God's Country of Central California) in our naked cities.
Why must we always sweat the small stuff, or denigrate it as "an accomodation" to populism. Bl. Theresa of Calcutta made no such distinctions.

MeloCharles

I think you know that a very close friend of mine, who lives in the Temescal neighborhood for the past decade, has been a regular at St Columba's for more than a decade. He was present for the scene I recalled from the mid-90s (before he moved to the East Bay in late 2000).

Thanks, many thanks for the services from King's. I must say that whether by Canon Douglas or J Whitbourn, or any other that I have heard, 'Were You There' is almost always a tail wagging a dog. There is no other reason to 'do' it than just to 'do' it, or to have done it. Of course we translate other culture's and national music into our liturgy with great regularity, and, most of the time, with good results. But I shall ever think this a very old and consistently failed attempt to insert a genre that just doesnt work. Supposedly, we have liturgies which have some aesthetic substance and foundation expressed with a consistent aesthetic. Does an idiom so expressive of and rooted in the American Negro experience translate well in to a liturgical service? I think that it doesn't because it has the nature of a thing inserted out of place, out of its own milieu. It would be far more powerful, and, at home, in another setting. But, OMWD

Someone just sent this to me, unaware of our conversation here. This says what I am trying to express much better than I.

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/beauty-gospel/

Paix:

I guess what it all comes down to is that the demand of the pip has trumped the true expression of beauty in sacred music by a mislead notion that they 'deserve' to hear whatever it is they 'feel' they need at the moment. It is not unlike the child who demands candy or sweets all the time to satisfy a craving. It gives immediate gratification, and seems to satisfy them for a moment, but in the long run they never get on to eating the foods that will make them grow into a strong healthy adult.

The clergy are mainly responsible for this grave error, because they are the 'father' of the liturgy, and it is in their keeping that God has entrusted to them, but they let themselves be emasculated by the tantrums of the immature sheep. They want to be 'loved' and accepted as friends on an equal level with the sheep, and don't know how to be a true 'father'. Shepherds have a crook for reason.

And what is worse, this then repels and usurps the true expression of the sacred that would come to the Church in the form of excellent art and music befitting the liturgy as 'we', (those that are capable of delivering that 'mature food'), are belittled, undermined and finally driven into exile.

The real crime in this attitude is that it is also done with the tennents of the faith. Catechesis is dumbed down to make the pip 'feel good' about themselves, the words 'sin', 'hell', 'judgment', etc., are all cast aside as being 'unloving', and we have milktoast Catholicism that demands nothing of the person, and they in return demand nothing of the world to come to Christ. It is the emasculation of the Gospel itself, and we will be judged on that one, we can be sure.

I have seen this happen over and over for 40 years now. B16 was trying to reverse the scenario because he knew what needed to be done. So meanwhile, we must keep carrying the torch, even in these difficult times.

So, in the end, trembling is not enough for God; He wants the very depth and core of our lives turned over to His Lordship and that means much more than just having momentary goose pimples.

You have my prayers.

Melo, perhaps I shouldn't tease you on Easter Tuesday, but is it really fair to tell Francis he has to stand on his own authority, and at the same time invoke Mother Teresa as your own wingman?