Anglican Chant
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Can anyone tell me the most beautiful and useful Anglican Chants for a Roman Catholic Choir to learn for the liturgical year?
  • There are hundreds upon hundreds of Anglican chants from which to choose. Any of them which strike your fancy would be good. Some, found in the back of The Hymnal 1940 (if you have a copy) are staples amongst Episcopalians, but any would be appropriate for Catholic choir use. You, I believe, are Canadian, so you might look into the Canadian psalters for Canadian Anglicans, which supply quite a few chants appropriate to each of the psalms (which are pointed for singing). There are a number of English books of a large selection of chants. I will have time to be more specific later tonight.

    I was at a Catholic church in the years following Vatican II, and we printed out a sheet of about a dozen chants that we liked and labelled them 'A', 'B', and so forth. When we sang the English propers (from that old red book that only lasted for about three years before the propers quietly vanished) we would say on a given Sunday that we would sing the introit or whatever to a certain one of those chants. This might be a good idea for you.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Thank you MJO. There is a possibility that I will attend a conference where there will be an emphasis on Anglican chant. I would like to suggest to the professor a chant or two which would be most useful during my liturgical year. Perhaps I will suggest one of the "ad libitum" communion chants. I would like the week to have some real learning and purpose for me (rather selfish) since I'll probably the only RC.

    We have an Anglican Use parish in our city. I'll ask if they have psalters which they might consider lending to me.
  • Here are a few more specifics, as I promised, about particular chants and books of chants -

    A not-too-compendious source is The Hymnal 1940, which, if you don't have a copy, you might want to locate on line, at a used bookseller's, etc. The selection therein should supply you with all the chants you might wish to use. Among the favourites are nos. 607, 609, 613 & 617 (for Te Deum), 626, 632, 638, 644,646, 657, 660, 695 (based on 'Ein feste Burg'), and 697 (taken from Purcell, a modal chant which is quite haunting for penitential or burial occasions). Besides being an excellent source of chants, this hymnal is indispensable as a source of commendable hymnody. The translations of its selection of a goodly number of Gregorian hymns are peerless.

    Some pointed Anglican chant psalters -
    1. The Episcopal Church publishes two musical versions of the psalter, one pointed for the Gregorian psalm tones, the other for Anglican chants.

    2. The Church of Canada (Anglican) also publishes a Gregorian tone and an Anglican chant version of the pointed psalter.

    3. The best current source for imaginatively pointed Anglican chant is The Anglican Psalter, Edited by John Scott, and published by the Canterbury Press (it may be had of Lois Fyfe's excellent music shop in Atlanta, or probably from your local church music shop).

    4. The Revised Parish Psalter With Chants, Faith Press

    A couple of books containing only chants -
    1. The New Cathedral Psalter Chants, pub. by Novello

    2. The Anglican Chant Book, pub. by Novello

    There are numerous others both in and out of print.

    (Hint: often one will encounter a chant referred to as, e.g., 'Turle's in D'. This can be misleading because often the same chant will appear in different keys not only in different books but in the same book.)

    Finally, as an aid in learning and mastering Anglican chant there is no better teacher than studious listening to the profusion of CDs of English cathedral choirs singing psalmody. A good (actually, impeccable) American source would be CDs of St Thomas' Church, 5th Ave., New York. When accompanying chant be aware of the integral value of varied registration for each verse of the psalm, or for an antiphon followed by a psalm verse. Imagination is of the essence. Also, though Anglican chant is essentially part singing, one need not sing SATB on every verse: some verses may be sung in unison, or by men or women, etc. The effectiveness of this will depend largely on the particular chant being sung.

    I am intrigued by the Anglican Use parish you say is in your city. What city are you in, and what is the dedication (name) of the parish? They should be able to give you some fine advice. You may even wish to have a Saturday or a one or two evening workshop on Anglican chant. The single most important performance consideration is that a definite, but fluid, speech rhythm should be cultivated, neither too fast nor too deliberate. Diction and clarity of word sense units and word rhythm are the backbone of communicating to others with Anglican chant. A common error is often heard in the performance of cadences: in the best chant it is very important that, upon reaching the cadence, the music is subsumed into the continuum of speech rhythm, one does not start counting 1-2-3-4 or alter the elasticity of verbal rhythm. Ignorance of this fundamental principle will often result in the phenomenon known as 'Anglican thump'.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
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  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    MJO, I think the English choirs in question depend. While there are some unparalleled ones, there are some terrible ones. As much as I love almost everything one Oxford collegiate choir does, I can't abide by their psalm singing. Much like, with St. Thomas, I love the Scott-regime psalm-singing, but I find the hymn playing pedantic.

    Finally, as an aid in learning and mastering Anglican chant there is no better teacher than studious listening to the profusion of CDs of English cathedral choirs singing psalmody. A good (actually, impeccable) American source would be CDs of St Thomas' Church, 5th Ave., New York. When accompanying chant be aware of the integral value of varied registration for each verse of the psalm, or for an antiphon followed by a psalm verse. Imagination is of the essence.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Bruce -
    I respect your feelings about the hymn playing being pedantic. I don't, though, agree with you: I find it stimulating. Did you have a particular organist in mind? Were you, perhaps, thinking of Gerre Hancock?

    Canadash -
    What is the Anglican Use parish in your city, and what city are you in? I love Canada and have been all over the east, but never west of Ontario. I spent a wonderful week in St Edward's Island for the RCCO convention in 2002.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    MJO, frankly, you'd be the first person I've met that enjoys the hymn-playing post-Hancock. I know the way it is done is a philosophical thing, but it's unfortunately sublimated the talents of the assistant organists, for example my Episcopalian counterpart here in Birmingham (formerly at St. T's) who is a brilliant hymn-player. I love Gerre's hymn playing, but then I miiiiight be a little biased having gotten my MM with him! :)
  • Bruce -I must confess that I haven't heard the post-Hancock hymn playing there. Hancock, though, as you might well attest, was something more than a genuis at hymn accompaniment. I need to hear something more recent to see if we agree.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    MJO: I pm'd you.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    MJO, listen away: www.saintthomaschurch.org

    It seems Scott is giving the current assistants a little more rope, but it's still very straight, English collegial hymn-playing to me. Not a fan, but since everything else is excellent... John Scott is fantastic and there's not a better person for that job, I just wish his philosophy of hymn playing was more "West Texas" (yee-haw?) like Uncle Gerre's.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    saintthomaschurch.org working link.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    And St. Thomas Church has two fine Taylor & Boody organs, as well.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    So they are evidently buying a Dobson if I read that right? Glad to know all the organs will not be hootys and bootys. LOL
  • pm'd?
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I believe that is "private message" ... look above at "inbox". There should be a "1" beside it, which means you have message... from me! (at least I hope so, I've now tried it twice).
  • Many thanks for the 'private message'. I didn't know such existed and discovered that I had quite a few!
  • RMSawicki
    Posts: 128
    I wholeheartedly agree with the above recommendation.

    The Hymnal 1940 is an indispensable resource for every church musician, both for the chants, as well as the glorious hymns with their stately harmonizations. My venerable "first master" had his collapsing, dog-eared copy perpetually placed on the left outer wing of the organ console for easy access.

    Get one if you can!

    Gaudete in Domino Semper!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Cokesbury publishes the 1940 Hymnal with Supplements I and II for $26. but now $23.40. Isn't it the same? They also have the 1928 Book of Common Prayer.
  • If you get there on the right day, you can find one at a used bookseller's for $5 or less.
    Or, if you're friends with your local Episcopal choirmaster he might give you an old one if they are using the 1982 book.

    Thanked by 1canadash
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    MJO, just wondering: have you all at Walsingham and the Murrays at OLOA done your own psalters? I imagine this has been addressed somewhere and I'm just forgetting, but I was curious. St. Thomas switched to John Scott's psalter when he arrived, and I believe they use it here at Advent Birmingham as well. It is very nice.
  • We have not done our own psalter. Our pointing, though not quite Scottian, is more imaginative than normal. I don't know what they use at Atonement (you may or may not be aware that OLOA elected not to be a part of the ordinariate - they may do so in the future.)

    (While visiting the St Thomas' link provided above, I was able to hear just about everthing except Scott-era hymnody.)
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    MJO, go to the webcast for any day. You would click on a date on the calendar, etc., and find mass or evensong.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • jpridgway
    Posts: 1
    Dear Canadash. As you know, there are literally thousands of Anglican chants. For two good chant books, I recommend The Anglican Chant Book (Novello) and the RSCM chant book. The great Victorian chant writers were James Turle and Henry Smart (Stainer composed a beautiful e minor double chant). I have also composed quite a few: if you would like to see them, please email me - ridgwayjohn@sky.com
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • PhatFlute
    Posts: 219
    Anglican chants make me so much happy and Gregorian psalms are depressing. Is my opinion,
    Ph
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Lol. I find the opposite, actually.
  • Phyllis, the Anglican chants can express more emotion through the harmonies that touch people, moving from major (happy) to minor (sad).

    There are chants that are built on the same musical scales, but also chants on other musical scales. The chants are equally emotional, but in a way that does not immediately touch the modern soul...especially the soul that is bombarded 24 hours everywhere with music in the major scale and harmonies and very rarely in minor and never, ever, in the other scales.

    Today on a plane we shared a salad that included sliced black olive and garbanzo beans. I do not like or eat them, have never liked or eaten them, bowing only to eat black olives when they appear fully cooked on a pizza, but not by choice.

    Today I ate and enjoyed both of them and will be including them in salads we make form now on. Phillis, chant may be your black olives. It, since it rarely goes where we expect it to, and is not predictable like modern music in major and even minor keys, can be unsettling...sort of like going to your local ice cream shop and finding them sold out and trying to convince you to buy a bowl of beam soup. Instead, you leave, walking home depressed.

    The Anglican chants are making you like hearing the psalms sung, that's good! This may lead you to finding and listening to the same chants in Gregorian Chant.

    Here is a favorite Anglican Chant psalm tone that I like.. Which happens to also be a Gregorian Chant psalm tone, unchanged.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaLXTc01V7c&feature=share&list=PLsEdGrUNiKOFIdKS5TphFPjc9Q7xKL75m

    Here you can see how the transition from Latin Gregorian chant evolved as this Gregorian Psalm tone was accepted into the Anglican church and sung as an Anglican chant.
  • Anglican chants make me so much happy and Gregorian psalms are depressing. Is my opinion,


    I also love 4-part psalm tones, regardless of origin. I might suggest that some discomfort towards gregorian tones is that they're often paired with vernacular texts, and I happen to be in the camp that argues that they were constructed specifically for the Latin language and that vernacular texts should be sung to tones devised for them specifically (like the Meinrad tones).

    Surely, some would agree that tone 8-g has been overused? No hard feelings if you disagree.

    Another problem would be poorly pointed texts. In a collection from one of the major publishers in the USA, wonderful antiphons are paired with poorly pointed texts--and often tones in modes that don't match the antiphon. I can't help but think that hurts the perception of the tones in the long run. When I use an antiphon from that book, I generally will substitute a Meinrad tone, or another better suited to English.

    By Flowing Waters does a better job than most resources I've seen that use the gregorian tones in using the correct mode and pointing the text so that it flows smoothly with the tone.
  • PhatFlute
    Posts: 219
    That is not true Anglican chant!! I even like minor chant. The organ also.
    But I just think Gregorian tones are all sad and boring. Remember, is my opinion. Even worse is when people make up their own even more depressed psalms.
    Ph
  • Gregorian tones are not about the music, it's about the prayer. Gregorian chant should be emotionally calming and meditative.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • Gregorian chant should be emotionally calming and meditative.


    Christus Vincit, the Glorias, the Alleluias would seem to counter that, no?
  • Christus Vincit, the Glorias, the Alleluias would seem to counter that, no?
    For sure. Not ecstatic but definitely a joy to hear or sing.
  • That is not true Anglican chant!!


    How do you know?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciting_tone
  • Clemens, I agree. I would go further and say I find most Anglican chant to be gutted of melodic interest.
  • I find most Anglican chant to be gutted of melodic interest.
    Right up there with the Gregorian Psalmtones - you've hit the nail on the head!

    Psalm tones are only meant to carry the words of the psalms throughout the building by means of the sung voice.

    That's why, I suppose, they are not called Psalm Melodies. Or even worse, Psalm Beautiful Melodies.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I think we need to burn this thread in a fire...

    I can't decide who's scandalizing me more...the people hating on Gregorian chant or MACW zinging Anglican chant!

    There are some winners. I like this C major double-chant by Gerre Hancock, but then I'm biased! http://www.anglicanchant.nl/midi/midi04/04573.mid
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • The subtle melody of Recto Tono vivified the cathedral.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I like both Anglican and Gregorian chant. So BLEAH!!!

    As Snoopy of Peanuts fame told Lucy, when she informed him his doghouse had burned down because he was a sinner, BLEAH! He went on to say, Her kind deserves to be BLEAHED!
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    The tread drift doesn't require burning, Bruce, it needs contextualization in my mind, albeit warped.
    Homophony is a versatile engine. One can take an Introit from Rice's SIMPLE CHORAL GRADUAL, a fauxbourdon psalm setting from a Renaissance vespers, an Anglican Psalm Tone, and so forth and with every tool imagineable, not really find an elegant, stand alone melody per se. So, I am very hesitant to even compare unison (or ison'd/organum'd) chant melodies with anything generally couched in homophony. More on this later, gotta funeral.
    But the litmus test for both forms will always remain very Rorschach: when you hear either chant or psalm tones, where are you? In church.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    The joke --------------->

    Melo's head
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Dagnabit in excelsis!
    Thanked by 1BruceL