Propers and media
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I believe a large proportion of the impetus for the recent declarations from our esteemed colleagues that their own personal worship modalities can no longer be fulfilled in the Novus Ordo reflect the perceived insufficiency of the arcane, disputational and nebulous nature of the glut of new vernacular chant resources that have naturally sprung up in the last decade (and arguably century) that to them seem "pretenders to the throne" of the Graduale and Liber.
    This should have been addressed by a consortium of not only experts but also practicioners at the grass roots level upon the first edition of the ADOREMUS "hymnal" perhaps. But doubtless Mrs. Hitchcock could not have foreseen the burgeoning and vast market of the once-dubbed bridge or gateway volumes of plainsong-based vernacular hymnals and missals that, as I think, now glut the RotR marketplace.
    It seems a new frontier is upon us. Three new publishing entities, CMAA, Illuminare and Corpus Christi Watershed, have been extant for some time now. Within two of those enterprises multiple composers/arrangers/hymnists/editors can hardly keep pace with the influx of new product by esteemed and verifiably orthodox, credentialed and aesthetically aware musicians. This array doesn't even address those (of whom many frequent this forum) whose contributions must be classified as niche market oriented, whether by independents such as our Kathy Pluth, francis koerber, Adam Wood, Jeffrey Quick, Richard Spangler and hosts of others who wish to personally push the demand for chanted or clearly sacral classical, choral propers and ordinaries.
    Here's the deal: the purchase success of the PBC, SEP and VII Hymnal is likely still seminal. The very nature of the commerce free access of the commons not only invites the local RotR leader to choose from the INTERNET the "Chinese Menu" of options by which to steer the faithful from their slavish (on whatever level) dependence upon the repertoires of the Lit/Industrial Publishers, but might also disincline these valuable decision-makers from either: 1. Divesting themselves and parishes from subscription or permanent "Big Three" investments, and 2. Waiting (likely in vain) for a comprehensive compendium that's economically approachable and long-lived permanent volume that comprehensively includes the major composers (Rice, Ostrowski, Bartlett, Esguerra, Fords, Weber, Oost-Zinner, Kelly et al too numerous to include) along with the hymnic texts of Tietze, Wood, Pluth and others accessibile by their proven efforts united with known hymntunes.
    I think I've opened the Can O Worms sufficiently. What do you think?
    (Side note to Kathy: we used to be able to say/sing "I know where I'm going." Can we still?)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,017
    I think I've opened the Can O Worms sufficiently. What do you think?

    Charles, I have literally no idea what you are talking about.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,017
    Perhaps to begin with you might clarify how a glut of resources can be perceived as disputatious.

    And then go on from there to clarify everything else you've written.
    Thanked by 1barreltone
  • Liam
    Posts: 3,757
    The's the Can-cordat O'Worms to you, bud.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,304
    It seems to me (and please forgive me if I am seriously misreading you) - that you are suggesting that TOO MANY RESOURCES might, itself, be a problem.

    This is called The Paradox of Choice, and is a well-known phenomenon among marketers and sales people.

    It think you might also be suggesting that the large number of offerings, compared to the small number of "buyers" reduces the value and market share of any single offering. (Is that right?) That is probably correct also.

    Finally -- I THINK you are suggesting that everyone... I'm not sure... collaborate or something? Make a more unified effort?

    Is that what you're getting at?

    If so - I think it's one of those "Good in theory" that aren't actually good in theory because a good theory takes into account how reality works.

    I think there's a glut of resources and offerings because people get excited, or interested, or whatever, and run off and start a project. Lots of excited people means lots of individual projects.

    The situation seems somewhat analogous to the folk-song revolution of the 60s and early 70s, only with CC-Licensed PDFs instead of purple-ink mimeographs. Eventually a dominant commercial player (my money is on Illuminare) will gain enough prominence that there will be a natural transition from Wild West to Establishmentarianism. The best (or most popular) of the Indy stuff will get anointed and re-published by the dominant publisher(s), and people will continue to write their own new music and promote wherever available because that's how people are, and some of that will filter up.

    Because I see cultural trends as inevitable, I think this will likely just happen naturally due to market forces. I think talking about forcing it to happen (or specifically working to make it happen) is basically treadmill-running.

    I'm not sure what, if anything, that has to do with the abandonment of the Novus Ordo (reports of which have been highly exaggerated anyway). I'm also not sure at all if I'm addressing your concerns at all, because I'm making some guesses about what I think you mean.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,017
    By the way, I really don't see the point of writing unintelligibly. Perhaps there is a way to write a prohibition against this into the Forum Guidelines? Although one wouldn't have thought it necessary, apparently it is.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Yes, Adam, you fisked out my thoughts accurately, thank you.
    Your statements about the Paradox of Choice within a still very small demographic are at the heart of my concerns.
    Regarding the mention about folks who've chosen to worship exclusively in the EF, the connection I assign as correlative is that there is a draw towards coherency in form and matter, which, at this time doesn't have a counterpoint in the media meant to assist in the OF.
    And I very much appreciate your take on letting "markets" develop naturally. Personally, I relish the choice to employ the Rice choral propers (or others) as well as the chant vernacular settings of Bartlett, Bruce Ford, Aristotle and Arlene (and others.) But, at the same time most of us here are advocating for more coherency in an atmosphere that is, legislatively, a "weak sister" and largely left ungoverned as is mentioned elsewhere about NObstats and Imprimaturs.
    I don't know (now) if these concerns are now more or less intelligible. I really don't mean to obfuscate. Again, thanks for bailing me out.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,304
    Again, thanks for bailing me out.

    Honestly, my first thought was "I have no idea what the hell he is talking about!"

    But, I do know that YOU KNOW what you're talking about in terms of liturgical praxis and trends, so I figured I should make the effort.

    My questions are:
    1. Are you suggesting we (whoever that is) should do something about all this?
    2. If (1 = yes) { Do you have a specific thing in mind we should be doing? }
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,017
    For example, what does this mean?
    Regarding the mention about folks who've chosen to worship exclusively in the EF, the connection I assign as correlative is that there is a draw towards coherency in form and matter, which, at this time doesn't have a counterpoint in the media meant to assist in the OF.

    And why not say it in such a way that people who aren't you, and/or who don't have the kind of curiosity and drive that fuel Adam Wood, can read it immediately?
    Thanked by 1Jahaza
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,597
    Adam Bartlett's post on the Chant Café, which brings up one of my misadventures with flights, might be an interesting commentary on this discussion:
    http://www.chantcafe.com/2013/10/sung-liturgy-in-ordinary-parish-life.html
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,017
    (Obviously I'll be less grumpy after a cheezburger first thing tomorrow.)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,007
    What does the mellow one mean?

    "And He never said a mumbalin’ word.
    Not a word, not a word, not a word."


    If I understood correctly, he was saying that there is greater coherency in the form and structure of the EF mass, and there are few options. This gives it a consistency that even I will admit the OF doesn't always have.

    cheeseburgers in Lent, now that is really heresy - LOL.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Adam,
    No, I am merely making an observation and positing some conclusions.
    I would love to have a truly alternative pew resource music book in which the contents were varied, yet edited for continuity and orthodoxy, and not weigh nor cost a ton.
    Kathy, I don't know how to respond to your complaints. I don't write with the intention of irritating readers, most of all you particularly. For example, in re-reading the sentence you cite above, I understand what it meant again upon review. I think, as you say, as I think, greatly flawed as it may be. If our discussions here were for commercial consumption, I suppose I'd have to conform to what the market demands if I wanted to benefit.
    I don't always, for example, "get" francis, Noel or Jackson upon first glance, but if my interest is piqued, I make the effort. That's my choice and decision. And as another example, I also much enjoyed Adam's essay at the Cafe, but after several readings still didn't understand a single point upon which I could hang my rhetorical hat. But as you said, it was elegant whether as prose or satire. I've digressed enough for this now.
    Perhaps, the issues Adam has clarified are still worthy of consideration.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,304
    I also much enjoyed Adam's essay at the Cafe, but after several readings still didn't understand a single point upon which I could hang my rhetorical hat. But as you said, it was elegant whether as prose or satire.

    It was an April Fools prank.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,304
    I would love to have a truly alternative pew resource music book in which the contents were varied, yet edited for continuity and orthodoxy, and not weigh nor cost a ton.


    Me too.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,017
    Of course you understand the sentence Charles. The question is whether others of good will can, and the answer is no.

    In a million years I would never know what this means: "...the connection I assign as correlative is that there is a draw towards coherency in form and matter..."

    Adam's essay was intentionally farcical, for April 1.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,007
    It's scary, Kathy. I think I am beginning to understand Melospeak. LOL.
  • kenstb
    Posts: 358
    Strangely enough, I understood Melo also. To his point though, I wonder if the amount of contemporary compositions has reached a point where a comprehensive volume could be produced. Thoughts?
  • rogue63
    Posts: 405
    I think part of the problem is that the Latin Church keeps shooting itself in the foot with options. There's no tradition in the vernacular for music. How many licit options for the Entrance Rite? For the Penitential Rite? For the Blessing of Palms and Procession? How many options for a Funeral? Wedding? Or the celebration of daily mass (optional memorial vs. ferial reading)? The variations go on and on and on, and can look wildly different from two churches in the same city. They shouldn't!

    Ultimately, though, legal prescriptions don't matter that much. The Lord prefers a broken spirit and contrite heart. Stick to your guns, write your own stuff, worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness, goodnight.
    Thanked by 1Ben Yanke
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,764
    I don't have a difficult time understanding melo when he *speaks*. Maybe he could adopt some of that same style in writing?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,017
    Me too :)
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Do my best, guys, thank you.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,304
    More to the point...

    What do people think about the questions raised?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Thank you again, Adam. I certainly wish to abandon the contention over my writing style and bear only appreciation for Kathy et al's concerns.
    I agree that the Lumen Christi Missal comprises the most attractive and uniform product thus far for both choir and congregation, provided that a parish consensus towards "only chant" exists. However, besides the limitations of that discipline, does the congregation require the "lessons" for all three years along with the musical settings? Isn't this the sort of "One stop shopping" solution that perpetuates the missalette mentality that the parish has the responsibility to put the Missal into the hands of each parishioner?
    Regarding the Vatican II Hymnal, it also is quite worthy, and its merits or otherwise have been exhaustively discussed here, so I won't give a summation from my POV here.
    I think perhaps what I'm dreaming of would be some sort of greatly expanded Parish Book of _______, based upon the PBC and PBPs volumes (thanks to RR/AOZ.)
    My ideal would probably require an editorial board of CMAA professionals as I envision that the contents, in "style," (chant/choral/hymn), layout and sections/indices would require thorough and quite sober deliberation as some worthy propers, ordinaries, sequences, etc. won't likely "make the cut."
    Regarding strophic hymns, I would advocate (in the people's edition) text only, and that hymn paraphrases of the propers be assigned places within each Sunday's or Holy Day's pages. So, if the numbering system goes beyond three digits, a chanted proper might be numbered 100a, a hymn version 100b, and choral propers 100c---etc. If there is reasonable space for office hymnody, that would be assigned its own section, likely after the yearly calendar and then ritual Masses (funerals/weddings etc.)
    Returning to consideration about "readings," I believe that each diocese, after careful consultation, could exhort pastors and parishioners to invest in their own directly purchased missals such as the LC or the famed St. Joseph. If our reformed siblings can carry their own editions of the Bible to their services, would it not be an edifying symbol to make that a catholic obligation and discipline? Exceptions for those cannot afford their own copies can be accomodated locally.
    Lastly, as mentioned in my original post, the dynamic tension between the use of Latin and vernacular (in this case mostly English or Spanish) is the impetus for my concern as the GR/GM/GS/LU are already comprehensive, not to mention also legistlated. So, as RotR efforts have already resulted in a plethora of most worthy vernacular chant resources, no organizational enterprise has emerged to compile a "complimentary" volume in the vernacular that would provide options between musical idioms, but still be consistent with the aims of the restoration of chant and other forms that adhere to the CMAA three judgments.
    I hope I've been much clearer for comprehension and consumption this time. Pax.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Should we all concede it's more interesting to debate/decry the semantical construct of my ideas than to advance the discussion of the subject I advanced (for which Adam called.)?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,764
    There might be some talk about the points you raise, but most of us are not reading the forum right now (1 AM Sunday morning Eastern time).
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Leave it to you, RC, to be awake in EST in order to respond! Love ya, man.
    Thanks for the thanks. Now, if God would convince Ms. Pluth I still have some faculties of cogency and thought, I could die happy. I so want to give her a hug at Indy!
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,017
    I'm not saying anything personally negative, Charles.

    It's the intelligiblity of the obfuscation of the classical virtues inherent in the out of bounds mise-en-scene undercutting all due proportionality conducive to agreement, disagreement, or otherwise involving the mind of outre humanae beyond the interiorly present and simply accepting potentially hazardous inferences beyond the pallor of the blue moon, that begs the issue.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,017
    YMMV
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,113
    the intelligiblity of the obfuscation
    This reminds me of the "generic letter of recommendation" which some of us crafted a number of years ago, in an effort to assuage our frustrations. It ran something like this:
    To whom it may concern:

    Boguslav Lax, who has applied for a position in your company, has asked me to write a letter of recommendation for him.

    I cannot say too much about Mr. Lax. You would be amazed at what he knows. It is simply not possible to find words that describe his abilities, and his work habits are the stuff of legend. Indeed, you would be very fortunate if you could get him to work for you.

    In summary, I cannot recommend Mr. Lax too highly.

    Sincerely yours,
    I. Amso di Sonnest
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Kathy, I know that!
    And that was hilarious, though I actually followed the train of thought, such as it was;-)
    Now, what of the thread ideas?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,304
    My opinion, re the issues ...

    I doubt very much that any one will be able to pull off creating a pew book or comprehensive program that fully supports the (minority) view of Propers-first, sacred-style programming while also being utilitarian and liberal enough to help bridge the gap with majority habitual practice.

    I would, therefore, suggest (to, you know, whomever) that if such bridge building is desirable, a good direction might be a smaller book that csn be paired with WLP We Celebrste or even OCP BB.

  • kenstb
    Posts: 358
    AW,

    Thanks for answering my question. : )

    KSB
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 640
    As to the thread, I think Adam made a very cogent objection to what he understood as your point. Or as Mao would recommend, let 100 flowers bloom, then cut their heads off.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Riding the tangent, so feel free to skip unless your initials are CC.
    I generally agree with your ideas, Melo.
    I can't recall a time when I didn't appreciate and even treasure your heart afire for Christ.

    But.......... but.....

    It's just that you are Mozart and I am the emporer (empress). There are too many words. They flummox me. Condensing your thoughts would be a great act of mercy to my humble mind.

    Here's my brutal honesty, and I admit I apply it to everyone, even you, dear friend. If a comment exceeds 2-3 long paragraphs, I usually skip it. It's too much effort for me to strain the point out of long comments. It becomes a chore, similar to having to check everyone's pockets for used kleenex when I barely have enough time to throw everything in the washing machine.

    For better or for worse, I go for brevity when it comes to blogs and forum posts. I suspect I'm not alone.

    Said with love. No purple implied. This endeth my rant/ tangent contribution.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,113
    the connection I assign as correlative is that...
    ?= the correlation I see is that...
  • Melo,

    I believe that we have talked about this and I with others, a matter that could assist in getting things together...at least I think that is what you are about?

    What would do much to help would be for a qualified editor to create a single store in which people could buy all of these, with simple, clear explanations by the editor that would assist those who know little or nothing, as we all did at one time or another....to understand where to begin.

    At this point the various publishers are not working together, which results in some books being available on Amazon....but one publisher has been told that they charge too much and will not consider it...others on Lulu and Createspace...

    One place, one editor, one simple source.

    I am not volunteering nor am I qualified. But there has to be someone with the talent and gift for this.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Yes, that depicts the dilemma facing progress quite succinctly, Noel. To be on such an editorial board would be a monumental undertaking (not including burial, one hopes) that would tax each member for many years, but would benefit parishes who might never return to the full Mahrt paradigm for decades.

    My dear Mary Ann, no offense taken. I've received the same direct critiques since doing my MA from the most beloved teacher I've ever known besides Frank LaRocca- I can viscerally remember reading Strunk and White and thinking "No way!" In the words of Walter Marks, "I've gotta be me!"
    In the words of Carole King, "Will you still love me tomorrow?"

    Now, MACW and Kathy et al, what about my proposition?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    mr copper, aligning the very heinous reality of Mao's machinations and genocide with Adam's sure-footed reality check is a dubious strategy, likely not to gain much support.
    I may be wrong, but I won't cite perpetrators of destruction as a rhetorical buttress cavalierly. C'mon, people now, let's get together.....
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,017
    Charles,

    I still don't know what your proposition is. What exactly is it?

    I suspect you are not clear about it in your own mind, which is one of the reasons your prose is constantly diverting attention away from your ideas and towards itself.

    In any case, I don't know in concrete terms what your proposal is.

    (But thank you for separating paragraphs in your latest.)
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,113
    (But thank you for separating paragraphs in your latest.)

    Amen.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I suspect you are not clear about it in your own mind, which is one of the reasons your prose is constantly diverting attention away from your ideas and towards itself.

    Kathy, I want to believe there's no condescension in such admonitions. I would ask that you make some effort to digest what I reprise below. I am trying honestly. But you seem to want to divert attention to my prosaical inadequacies, rather than try to read what I've actually said. I will paragraph this already posted statement so as to advance the discussion beyond your criticism of my loquaciousness. After this, if not enough, I yield. I'm 63, and at some point I've either lost your respect entirely or I'm an idiot. Just state which or both of those you've chosen to assign me to, and I'll try not to live up to them.

    Thank you again, Adam. I certainly wish to abandon the contention over my writing style and bear only appreciation for Kathy et al's concerns. I agree that the Lumen Christi Missal comprises the most attractive and uniform product thus far for both choir and congregation, provided that a parish consensus towards "only chant" exists.

    However, besides the limitations of that discipline, does the congregation require the "lessons" for all three years along with the musical settings? Isn't this the sort of "One stop shopping" solution that perpetuates the missalette mentality that the parish has the responsibility to put the Missal into the hands of each parishioner?

    Regarding the Vatican II Hymnal, it also is quite worthy, and its merits or otherwise have been exhaustively discussed here, so I won't give a summation from my POV here. I think perhaps what I'm dreaming of would be some sort of greatly expanded Parish Book of _______, based upon the PBC and PBPs volumes (thanks to RR/AOZ.)

    My ideal would probably require an editorial board of CMAA professionals as I envision that the contents, in "style," (chant/choral/hymn), layout and sections/indices would require thorough and quite sober deliberation as some worthy propers, ordinaries, sequences, etc. won't likely "make the cut."

    Regarding strophic hymns, I would advocate (in the people's edition) text only, and that hymn paraphrases of the propers be assigned places within each Sunday's or Holy Day's page. So, if the numbering system goes beyond three digits, a chanted proper might be numbered 100a, a hymn version 100b, and choral propers 100c---etc. If there is reasonable space for office hymnody, that would be assigned its own section, likely after the yearly calendar and then ritual Masses (funerals/weddings etc.)

    Returning to consideration about "readings," I believe that each diocese, after careful consultation, could exhort pastors and parishioners to invest in their own directly purchased missals such as the LC or the famed St. Joseph. If our reformed siblings can carry their own editions of the Bible to their services, would it not be an edifying symbol to make that a catholic obligation and discipline? Exceptions for those cannot afford their own copies can be accomodated locally. Lastly, as mentioned in my original post, the dynamic tension between the use of Latin and vernacular (in this case mostly English or Spanish) is the impetus for my concern as the GR/GM/GS/LU are already comprehensive, not to mention also legistlated. So, as RotR efforts have already resulted in a plethora of most worthy vernacular chant resources, no organizational enterprise has emerged to compile a "complimentary" volume in the vernacular that would provide options between musical idioms, but still be consistent with the aims of the restoration of chant and other forms that adhere to the CMAA three judgments. I hope I've been much clearer for comprehension and consumption this time. Pax.


    I don't know what else you require, Kathy. Did you miss this the first time around? Up to this moment you've only commented upon my deficiencies as a writer, rather than the topic. I still accept your intention as not being, despite that reality, as not personal. You have often chastised me for stifling discussion, including this thread which I began. But what do you have to think about the idea of a comprehensive vernacular propers/ordinary/hymnody compendium? This gives me a true stomach ache having to explicate it.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,764
    Melo, let me rephrase it to see if I got it.

    Melo would like to see some group of people -- let's say, CMAA people -- create a packaged set of vernacular music selections for the observances of the three-year cycle, in book form.

    It would not include Scripture readings, but would include pieces to be sung at the times of the propers. For each such occasion in the calendar, there would a few options: e.g., a hymn, a choral work, a plainchant piece.

    ---

    So, Melo, would this be intended as a pew book? I ask because putting choral works in a book for the congregation might be unnecessary. Perhaps the full book would be conceived as a choir book, while a reduced version would be made for the congregation.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,545
    Something like a one-stop-shop that offers various resources along the continuum of Breaking Bread toward Lumen Christi, with an editorial board that ensures quality material no matter how RotR-ideal the particular resource is in and of itself.

    That's what I'm getting from this.

    The logic being that not every parish is ready for Lumen Christi, but there's a glut of additional resources and no centralized "focal point" for it all ... where a pastor or director could look for something sacred, but realistic for the current parish situation.


    If that's accurate, the issue I see with it is that the range of approved works will still fall along a continuum which points to a particular ideal, and that ideal is not what all parishes aim for (unfortunately). They will find where they are comfortable and sit at that point, without moving forward. The difference is that the material will be guaranteed to be "liturgy-worthy," but it won't guarantee progress toward the ideal. Others will overlook the entire offering because it disagrees with their circular sing-a-new-church paradigm. Those who are on-board with RotR are going to fight the good fight anyway, and are already aware of and utilizing the resources that exist.

    Short version: concern that a centralized effort will be nothing more than a more convenient way for churches to continue what they would do anyway, just with a little less Google time.


    Not that I don't like the idea. I love it. That's just my concern for it. (Assuming I'm not misunderstanding what you're talking about).
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Thanks again, RC, for sifting through.
    Yes, a pew book is the objective. Even tho' the GIRM makes clear the first option for processionals is the Latin GR settings, we know that there will remain an acceptable "gray area" option for PIPs to enjoin the proper processionals and perhaps future settings of the gradual/alleluia and tracts in the Anglophile sees. I didn't state that entire choral versions of eg. the Rice Simple or Choral Communio's would need editorial space. However, being very familiar with both volumes, the "Simple" could be reduced to a melody version, with Richard's consent; and the Choral settings (gorgeous all) could be reprinted as texts only for concsious contemplation.
    I have given some thought to the exegencies, accompaniments etc., but for strophic settings, there are plenteous hymntune settings for organ, and enterprising choral directors do have Finale, Sibelius and Lilypond if they're inclined, with either PubDom/Commons tacit approval to set.
    I haven't thought through every contingency, I'm still trying to get the conversation off the ground and away from my personality.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    It's not that I don't like the idea. I love it. That's just my concern for it. (Assuming I'm not misunderstanding what you're talking about).

    ryan, who knows when the iron is hot enough to strike? But from my vantage point, still accomodating the "dial a Mass style" modality over 18 weekend Masses, it seems that all PIPs would be grateful to respond "in kind" to cantillated orations from whomever (cantor/lector/celebrant) and naturally implied catholic expression based upon chant. There won't be an ideal time ever to make the paradigm shift, but a comprehensive book in the pew, obviously endorsed by pastors/bishop would make a BIG STATEMENT. Variances from that shift (LifeTeen or whatnot) could still coexist as long as publishers and practicioners make it viable. But we need our version of a Book of Common Prayer. Was that clear?
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,545
    image
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,545
    would be grateful to respond "in kind" to cantillated orations from whomever (cantor/lector/celebrant) and naturally implied catholic expression based upon chant.


    endorsed by pastors/bishop would make a BIG STATEMENT.


    But we need our version of a Book of Common Prayer.


    These things make me smile.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I love Ben Stein. Literally.
    "Bueller?"
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,764
    The Book of Common Prayer doesn't contain music, so it may not be a good analogy for this.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I now feel like Dr. Emilio Lizardo (from "Buckeroo Banzai") who rushed towards the macro vision. G'night my dear friend.