Does the person who sings the psalm have to be a Catholic?
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,932
    Andrew:

    I wasn't sure about the attitude MJO was discussing so I didn't comment on it. Thanks for the reference.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,674
    Charles:

    I think MJO is referring to you...


    Nah, has to be the other more western Charles. I am the good Charles! :-)
  • kenstb
    Posts: 364
    uh-oh... That wasn't nice. chonak, you're sort of right. I got that impression from being there.
  • I think that in Texas the most famous Jewish composer is Bacharach.

  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,932
    CharlesW 11:50AM Thanks
    Posts: 4,431
    Holy smoke! We better get some Mormon underwear. We are all in deep doodie. ;-)

    dangerous and hath about it the odour


  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,674
    Now if I could just find those golden tablets...
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    CDub, you are so busted! Passing off your doctrines and covenants to moi! There is another Charles floating around you know.
    Frogman, I thought the most well-known Jewish composer in Texas was Kinky Friedman. What gives?
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • I ask you this... Is it wise to ignore the warnings of the Mother of God and to challenge her words and apparitions wholly approved by Mother Church?


    It is also unwise to elevate even approved private revelation to the level of dogma.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,160
    "and in this way the saints will rejoice in the punishment of the wicked, by considering therein the order of Divine justice and their own deliverance, which will fill them with joy. "


    So their joy is primarily over 'Divine justice' and their deliverance--not that the wicked are punished.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,932
    It is also unwise to elevate even approved private revelation to the level of dogma.


    Who said anything about dogma?

    Did she appear?
    Yes.

    Were the messages authentic?
    Yes.

    Can we choose to ignore them?
    Yes.

    Will we pay the consequence?
    Yes.

    Do these messages fall in the category of 'private revelations'?
    No, it is not just a private revelation. It is a public, prophetic revelation given by the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God. It is not to be confused with "Revelation" or as it is also called, the Deposit of the Faith, which ended with the death of the last Apostle. But public, prophetic revelation must not be despised. The Virgin Mary's prophecy was confirmed by a public miracle and authenticated by a whole line of Popes. Also, its predictions have come true.

    So, while belief in the Message of Fatima may not strictly be required of Catholics as an article of faith, one would be very foolish to disregard such an obviously authentic message from Heaven. As St. Paul taught: "Despise not prophecies, but prove all things; hold fast to that which is good." (1 Thess. 5:20-21) The prophecy of Fatima has been proven worthy of belief. We should not despise it, but rather hold fast to what Our Lady told us at Fatima.



  • Do these messages fall in the category of 'private revelations'?
    No, it is not just a private revelation.


    This is a misunderstanding of the Church's definition of public vs. private revelation. Public revelation (which is the deposit of faith) closed with the death of the last apostle. Fatima, Lourdes, etc., are private revelations and may be ignored by any faithful Catholic without any detriment to the faith.

    Can a faithful Catholic believe and follow an approved apparition? Absolutely. I have no doubt that these messages have enriched both individuals and the Church at large. They are not necessary for anyone, and demanding that they be so is contrary to the Catechism.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,932
    may be ignored by any faithful Catholic without any detriment to the faith.


    ignore away!

    I have no doubt that these messages have enriched both individuals and the Church at large. They are not necessary for anyone, and demanding that they be so is contrary to the Catechism.


    Our Lady did not demand anything. She said simply:

    If you do this, then A will happen.
    If you do this, then B will happen.
    Pick!

    We have certainly picked, by golly! Hold on to your hats folks!
  • kenstb
    Posts: 364
    "by golly"... Really?
  • As long as we are talking underwear, CharlesW, has word trickled down to you yet? Has the $38 million for the new cathedral been diverted to the poor...so that the B and cohorts are not chastised by Francis....? I mean the big one, not ours above? Who is big in his own way.

    Back to topic....may a cantor refuse to sing with an organist he/she does not like to sing with?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,921
    I do that all the time, Noel. Fortunately, those organists don't work at my job church.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,932
    kenstb

    o.........k............. Well, it appears that what I am repeating can simply be ignored. Yes? What else shall we discuss?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,674
    Noel, I don't know anything about that cathedral. The congregation has outgrown the current cathedral, that much is fact. I never go there, so I am not involved with what is going on.

    The poor. Compared to much of the world, hardly anyone in this country is poor on the same scale. We probably don't understand poverty in third world terms and conditions.

    Cantors can be a gift or a biblical scourge on mankind. No one forces them to sing and if they are unhappy, perhaps they can find another place more to their liking.

  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,372
    The person who sings the psalm must be a good singer.
  • I thought it would be appropriate that the psalmist ought to be a confirmed Catholic, imbued with the Holy Spirit as if a dove descending on the psalmists' shoulders singing God's praise in the psalmists' ears.

    Either that or Catholics ought to have to chant a psalm during their sacrament of confirmation.

    If the psalm at mass is just a music chart, then anyone can do that. If it is a sacred ritual, then care ought to be taken in selecting the psalmist IMHO.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Oh for crimeny's sake, I have a few "Catholics" who think they're worthy of being "soloists" for the Psalm. Not gonna happen under my direction. Yeesh, use discernment, tho' they can't.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,601
    I hesitated, but only briefly, to post:

    .
    Q From Frank Palmeri in the USA: I cannot find a definition for the word crimony anywhere. I’ve encountered it twice: once in a Far Side cartoon and another on the Garrison Keillor radio program Prairie Home Companion. Both times it seems to be uttered in exclamation, similar to Holy Cow!.

    A It’s certainly a mild exclamation or cry of astonishment or annoyance, now much weaker in force than when it was first used, back in the seventeenth century, when it was usually spelled crimine or criminy. Most dictionaries that include it spell it criminy, though many variant forms exist, such as criminey, crimany, criminee and crimeny. These variations show that the word has usually been transmitted orally rather than in writing.

    The usual explanation is that it is a form of Christ, much like another somewhat dated mild expletive, crikey, which came along later; but the Oxford English Dictionary suggests that it might just be a variant form of crime.

    There is also an elaborated version, crimanetly, known regionally in the US, which also turns up in numerous variations, such as criminetlies, criminetly and crimanightie. The Dictionary of American Regional English has a map showing where its researchers have found these expanded versions — mainly in the northern states of the central and western US, together with California. The entry also lists some compounds, such as Jesus crimanently. This seems to be a relatively modern development, since written examples are known only from the second half of the twentieth century.

    Both the short and the long form feel old-fashioned and rural. However, it’s easy to find examples of both in discussion forums online, though it’s hard to say to what extent these are being used as humorous archaisms.

    There’s a nice example of criminy in a letter written by Lord Byron in 1816, which shows yet another spelling: “Crimini, jimini! Did you ever hear such a nimminy pimminy story as Leigh Hunt’s Rimini?” This suggests that criminy might be related to Jiminy (as in Jiminy Cricket), which appeared at about the same time. This was possibly a modified form of Gemini, but was equally likely to be based on the Latin Jesu domine.


    Will this never end? I'd side with the variant of Crime just to end all this.
    Thanked by 1melofluent