Copy of "The Fast as Taught..." set to Old 100th?
  • FrDuncan
    Posts: 11
    It's a somewhat random request, but does anyone have an image of "The Fast as Taught by Holy Lore" set to Old 100th? The tune is probably familiar enough, that I could just put the text in the leaflet, but I like to cover my bases.
  • Could you supply the full text of this hymn? I am not familiar with it and it sounds interesting. As for singing it to 'Old 100th', I should think that anyone would be able to do that without the music: it is universally known.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    The fast, as taught by holy lore,
    we keep in solemn course once more;
    the fast to all men known, and bound
    in forty days of yearly round.

    The law and seers that were of old
    in diverse ways this Lent foretold,
    which Christ, all seasons' King and Guide,
    in after ages sanctified.

    More sparing therefore let us make
    the words we speak, the food we take,
    our sleep and mirth,-- and closer barred
    be every sense in holy guard.

    In prayer together let us fall,
    and cry for mercy, one and all,
    and weep before the Judge's feet,
    and his avenging wrath entreat.

    Thy grace have we offended sore,
    by sins, O God, which we deplore;
    but pour upon us from on high,
    O pardoning One, thy clemency.

    Remember thou, though frail we be,
    that yet thine handiwork are we;
    nor let the honor of thy name
    be by another put to shame.

    Forgive the sin that we have wrought;
    increase the good that we have sought;
    that we at length, our wanderings o'er,
    may please thee here and evermore.

    We pray thee, Holy Trinity,
    One God, unchanging Unity,
    that we from this our abstinence
    may reap the fruits of penitence.

    Words: Latin, sixth century;
    trans. John Mason Neale
  • This is really fine!
    How could it have escaped my attention at no. 65 in The English Hymnal! Paired with a Gregorian mode ii tune and a later long metre tune, 'Jesu Corona', either of which does the hymn more justice than 'Old Hundredth'.

    What was your source, Fr Krisman?

    A good question for you is: why isn't it in any of our hymnals???
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Jackson. I don't know why, but John Mason Neale produced many, many excellent hymn texts and translations that were once more fashionable than they now seem to be, which is really quite unfortunate.
  • Well, Chuck, I DID notice that it had several really uncommon and, er, bizarre words, such as 'mirth' and 'seers', plus a 'thine' and a 'thy' or two. We wouldn't want XXIst century folk (poor things!) adding such dated verbiage to their vocabularies, would we?

    Seriously, though, this is an outstanding hymn detailing all that Lent is about more fully and beautifully than almost any Lenten hymn I can think of. I should think that it would be in our hymnals.

    And, it would be awfully nice if there were a volume containing all of JMN's translations, wouldn't it? I do have a mid-XIXth century edition of Newman's translations of numerous office hymns, but, unfortunately, though his language is exquisite, he changed the metre, so it's difficult to match them up with Gregorian tunes.

    Does anyone know of a compendium of Neale's translations?
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    MJO, it's the second great Lenten hymn attributed to Saint Gregory the Great, entitled Ex more docti mystico. I lifted the translation from Cyberhymnal Oremos ( http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/t/t131.html ) and cannot vouch for its complete correspondence to what Dr. Neale originally published.

    Both WLP/Paluch and GIA have used a translation by Peter Scagnelli ("Again We Keep This Solemn Fast") the past few decades in their hymnals. But Fr. Scagnelli freely admits that his text is "after John M. Neale." In other words, a reworking of Neale's text - in 5 stanzas, rather than 8.

    Catholics often sing both of Gregory's hymns (the other being Clarum decus jejunii - "The Glory of These Forty Days") to ERHALT UNS HERR.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    why isn't it in any of our hymnals???


    Because Lent is NOT forty days, so this hymn is basically lying.
  • John Julian’s Dictionary of Hymnology has interesting information on this hymn text (Ex more docti mystico), its origins, and various translations. Julian states that the hymn is found in two manuscripts of the 11th century in the British museum. A 15th century manuscript has slight variations, and attributes the original text to St. Gregory the Great.

    Julian’s Dictionary of Hymnology, last revised in 1907, is a classic two-volume work, available on the internet as a PDF (large file!)
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    You can get "Collected Hymns, Sequences and Carols of John Mason Neale" from this Google books link (free PDF download), or from this archive.org link, I downloaded it from the former link.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Many thanks for this, Chuck: it makes up for your tale about the paint-thinning painter (not to mention that dreadful one about Esau!)... tee, hee.
  • CGM
    Posts: 699
    (this thread reminds me of how Peppermint Patty - and no one else - always refers to Charlie Brown as "Chuck")
  • cdruiz
    Posts: 26
    The melody we use at home: Don't know if it is 100th.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvgduI3lquA

    Text we use:

    The Fast, as taught by holy lore,
    we keep in so-lemn course once more:
    the fast to all men known, and bound
    in for-ty days of year-ly round.

    The law and seers that were of old
    in divers ways this Lent fore-told,
    which Christ, all sea-sons' King and guide,
    in af-ter a-ges sanc-ti-fied.

    More spa-ring there-fore let us make
    the words we speak, the food we take,
    our sleep and mirth, -and clo-ser barr’d
    be e-v’ry sense in ho-ly guard:

    Avoid the e-vil thoughts that roll
    like waters o'er the heed-less soul;
    nor let the foe oc-ca-sion find
    our souls in sla-ve-ry to bind.

    In pray’r to-ge-ther let us fall,
    and cry for mer-cy, one and all,
    and weep be-fore the Jud-ge's feet,
    and His a-ven-ging wrath entreat.

    Thy grace have we o-ffended sore,
    by sins, O God, which we de-plore;
    but pour u-pon us from on high,
    O pard’-ning One, Thy cle-men-cy.

    Remem-ber Thou, though frail we be,
    that yet Thine hand-i-work are we;
    nor let the ho-nor of Thy Name
    be by a-no-ther put to shame.

    Forgive the sin that we have wrought;
    increase the good that we have sought:
    that we at length, our wan-d’rings o'er,
    may please Thee here and e-vermore.

    We pray thee, Ho-ly Trinity,
    One God, unchang-ing U-ni-ty,
    that we from this our ab-sti-nence
    may reap the fruits of pe-nitence. A-men.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • No, it isn't 'Old 100th'!
    It is a mode ii Gregorian tune, the same as found at no. 65 in The English Hymnal.
    Exquisite!
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Exquisite!

    indeed!
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • [Bumping thread]

    Both WLP/Paluch and GIA have used a translation by Peter Scagnelli ("Again We Keep This Solemn Fast") the past few decades in their hymnals. But Fr. Scagnelli freely admits that his text is "after John M. Neale." In other words, a reworking of Neale's text - in 5 stanzas, rather than 8.


    I have always used the Scagnelli translation out of the hymnal, but this hymn does not appear in our current hymnal (Saint Michael 4th edition). Apparently the copyright on the text is not covered by Licensing or OneLicense, as I am not able to download it from any of the publisher's websites. So I'll have to create my own graphic using the Neal translation. Not a bad problem in retrospect, but being able to download something would be more convenient. Are there any other modern translations that are either free to use or covered under the various licenses that I should consider?