Yes, indeed, Expeditus. Sounds like the last few decades have been very difficult for Don Kirby:

I shall never forget the anguish generated by trying to invent new psalm tones suited to the vernacular, all the while clinging desperately in my heart to the chants of the Antiphonale Monasticum that had taken root there. Memories of the traditional liturgy persisted, through the winter of my discontent, like the lovely blossoms of the crocus, in trying to pierce the frozen crust that had been laid over my hortus conclusus.

This personally rings a bell with me. A priest friend of mine is a former Benedictine chantmaster who related to me several years ago his own heartbreaking experience trying to translate Gregorian chant to English---an effort at which he labored mightily for a number of years before informing his superiors it just could not be done.

P.S. Is that what they call a Sisyphean labor?

Dear Melofluous, I want to thank you for your comments, and I want to let you know that I admire you for what you and so many wonderful, sincere, zealous, eminent, brilliant and admirable people are trying to do, although it is, in my opinion, ultimately a losing proposition. However, it is not my opinion that I'm interested in or enamored of, but rather those far more learned than I could ever be.

So, I'd like to leave you with one question, posed with all the respect, courtesy and Christian-Catholic demeanor I can possibly muster up:

Is it possible Cardinal Josef Ratzinger did not have the proper attitude towards the reformed liturgy based on his well-known comments below?

1) "One cannot manufacture a liturgical movement ... but one can help contribute to its development by striving to reassimilate the spirit of the liturgy and by defending publicly what one has thus received ... What happened after the Council was something else entirely: in the place of liturgy as the fruit of development came fabricated liturgy. We abandoned the organic, living process of growth and development over centuries, and replaced it-- as in a manufacturing process -- with a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product." Cardinal Josef Ratzinger from the preface of the book "The Reform of the Roman Rite" by Msgr. Klaus Gamber

2) "I am convinced that the ecclesial crisis in which we find ourselves today depends in great part upon the collapse of the liturgy, which at times is actually being conceived of etsi Deus non daretur: as though in the liturgy it did not matter any more whether God exists and whether He speaks to us and listens to us.

"But if in the liturgy the communion of faith no longer appears, nor the universal unity of the Church and of her history, nor the mystery of the living Christ, where is it that the Church still appears in her spiritual substance?," ( From My Life: Remembrances 1927-1977.)

3) “It is also worth observing here that the ‘creativity’ involved in manufactured liturgies has a very restricted scope. It is poor indeed compared with the wealth of the received liturgy in its hundreds and thousands of years of history. Unfortunately, the originators of homemade liturgies are slower to become aware of this than the participants…” (Feast of Faith p. 67-68)

Julie, I can only respond with official document excerpts that Pope Ratzinger obviously addresses in toto the concerns raised by these latest critical declarations. I expect that these will be taken at face value, and not framed within lenses that suggest a tactical objective that His Holiness might have had by the mention of Abp. Levebre. Short of that, I see things as does Bp. Elliott. And, for the record, I trust you didn’t take my earlier mention of Christian-Catholic as veiled snark, as it wasn’t so intended.

This fear is unfounded. In this regard, it must first be said that the Missal published by Paul VI and then republished in two subsequent editions by John Paul II, obviously is and continues to be the normal Form – the Forma ordinaria – of the Eucharistic Liturgy. The last version of the Missale Romanum prior to the Council, which was published with the authority of Pope John XXIII in 1962 and used during the Council, will now be able to be used as a Forma extraordinaria of the liturgical celebration. It is not appropriate to speak of these two versions of the Roman Missal as if they were “two Rites”. Rather, it is a matter of a twofold use of one and the same rite...
Your charity and pastoral prudence will be an incentive and guide for improving these. For that matter, the two Forms of the usage of the Roman Rite can be mutually enriching: new Saints and some of the new Prefaces can and should be inserted in the old Missal. The “Ecclesia Dei” Commission, in contact with various bodies devoted to the usus antiquior, will study the practical possibilities in this regard. The celebration of the Mass according to the Missal of Paul VI will be able to demonstrate, more powerfully than has been the case hitherto, the sacrality which attracts many people to the former usage. The most sure guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives. This will bring out the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal.

Summorum Pontificum, Letter to Fellow Bishops. 7-7-07

There are convincing aspects to the preference for the EF asserted here on behalf of Dom Mark et al. The conclusions, though, would not likely pass muster under the lens of rational philosophical proof. And, there are highly subjective biases in the assertions concerning the success with which Gregorian chant can be adapted to English. As one who has sung this chant in English and Latin all his Anglican life and into his Anglican Use Catholic life, I find such proclamations rather absurd. The root of them is in the (no doubt sincerely-held) conviction that the mass can be celebrated genuinely and in its fullness only with Latin. This, too, is absurd, as both Anglicans and Orthodox well know; not to mention quite a few Catholics who worship with all purity of heart with the OF in its English translation. These dicta are arrogant and proudfully judgmental. Having said all that, I should stress that I love Latin and use it frequently - but it isn't ontologically superior to good hieratic English as a vehicle for worship.

There is no doubt that the EF, whether celebrated high or low, is (with the best of intentions and the absence of mere nostalgia) a more genuine act of worship than the OF in its all-too-common pop-rock-happy-clappy versions. There is also no doubt that the OF celebrated with equal solemnity is lacking nothing of spiritual value, nor is it inherently a shoddily built substitute for the 'old familiar house'. What is wrong with it is not it itself, but the people who think pop music and Ed Sullivan liturgists are representative of 'modern' Catholic worship.

@M. Jackson Osborn -
It isn't a question of some "ontological" superiority of Latin or the EF (that it's somehow "better" than the Eastern rites), or the purity of heart with which people may worship in various forms, but which form of the rite (EF or OF) more fully embodies the tradition of the Latin church. On that score, a very solid argument can be made for the "superiority" of the EF.

For many of us who are just parish musicians, we've just got to get on with the job. At the coalface, we're doing well if the parish sings traditional hymns and may some basic gregorian chants. It's up to the clergy to choose the missal prayers. It would be fantastic if they would always use the Roman Canon, especially on Sunday masses, but as an average layman, I don't really have much influence in the area.

I've often told people that I don't really care if we have the OF or EF liturgy, as long as we do our best to do it properly and either way, I satisfy my Sunday obligation and hopefully my work in liturgical music will go some way into nourishing the souls of the faithful.

(I'd say that even if I didn't host it on my server.)

...and this is simply mind-blowing:

"In present conditions, what words or melodies could replace the forms of Catholic devotion which you have used until now? You should reflect and carefully consider whether things would not be worse, should this fine inheritance be discarded. It is to be feared that the choral office would turn into a mere bland recitation, suffering from poverty and begetting weariness, as you yourselves would perhaps be the first to experience. One can also wonder whether men would come in such numbers to your churches in quest of the sacred prayer, if its ancient and native tongue, joined to a chant full of grave beauty, resounded no more within your walls. We therefore ask all those to whom it pertains, to ponder what they wish to give up, and not to let that spring run dry from which, until the present, they have themselves drunk deep.
Of course, the Latin language presents some difficulties, and perhaps not inconsiderable ones, for the new recruits to your holy ranks. But such difficulties, as you know, should not be reckoned insuperable. This is especially true for you, who can more easily give yourselves to study, being more set apart from the business and bother of the world. Moreover, those prayers, with their antiquity, their excellence, their noble majesty, will continue to draw to you young men and women, called to the inheritance of our Lord. On the other hand, that choir from which is removed this language of wondrous spiritual power, transcending the boundaries of the nations, and from which is removed this melody proceeding from the inmost sanctuary of the soul, where faith dwells and charity burns – We speak of Gregorian chant – such a choir will be like to a snuffed candle, which gives light no more, no more attracts the eyes and minds of men.
In any case, beloved Sons, the requests mentioned above concern such grave matters that We are unable to grant them, or to derogate now from the norms of the Council and of the Instructions noted above. Therefore we earnestly beseech you that you would consider this complex question under all its aspects. From the good will which we have toward you, and from the good opinion which we have of you, We are unwilling to allow that which could make your situation worse, and which could well bring you no slight loss, and which would certainly bring a sickness and sadness upon the whole Church of God. Allow Us to protect your interests, even against your own will. It is the same Church which has introduced the vernacular into the sacred liturgy for pastoral reasons, that is, for the sake of people who do not know Latin, which gives you the mandate of preserving the age-old solemnity, beauty and dignity of the choral office, in regard both to language, and to the chant.
Obey, then, these prescriptions sincerely and calmly. It is not an excessive love of old ways that prompts them. They derive, rather, from Our fatherly love for you, and from Our concern for divine worship."

Pope Paul VI, in writing Sacrificium Laudis to the superiors of clerical religious of men in August 1966

We had this discussion over at Pray Tell recently.

Reform of the Reform or not, call it what you want - I'm just going to keep doing the mass as I believe documents call for it.

I really don't care about lace vestments or altar candles, or the priest saying mass with his back to the people. I'm not going to wage a campaign to stop those things, because I think they're perfectly fine, but if someone doesn't want them (including "someone" who is the Pope,) that's fine with me.

I'm not much a fan of the Latin mass. I'm not vehemently against it, and I've offered music on a couple of occasions for them when requested to do so. I would be willing to do so again when requested.

In fact, the people in my parish might be surprised to hear me say that, since I regularly use Gregorian chants, in Latin, for the Introit and Communion, and regularly use Latin motets. But for me, it's about doing mass as Vatican II called for it.

So keep the reform of the reform - or don't. Until legislation comes out changing the documents, specifically the parts that call for chant and Latin and the organ, I'm going to keep advancing in this direction.

Dear Melo, far be it from me to create division where none exists and paint myself and others into opposing corners. Considering the current state of affairs that would be highly counter-productive and would defeat the purpose of this admirable forum where real peace and harmony exists between EF and OF musicians and demonstrates that our worlds often overlap. If there is any place in the Church where "mutual enrichment between the two forms" takes place everyday, it's right here!

My only difference with you is that I object to your characterization of Dom Kirby's declaration as not being news. It might not be earth-shattering, I agree, but I believe it is a much-needed philosophical mid-course correction yielding rich future dividends.

The atmosphere has changed because of the two recent high-profile defections from the ROTR, and already I can feel a fresh wind blowing. I feel like I can lay more of my theological/philosophical cards on the table and begin to talk turkey in a way that wasn't possible even a week ago.

A week ago I was tempted to suggest that a comparative study be made between Arbp. Bugnini's definition of the Mass and the definition of the Mass from the Council of Trent and discuss what implications that has for us as church musicians since "lex credendi legem supplicandi statuat" but my courage failed me. I wouldn't be afraid to suggest that now. (Well, maybe I'm still a little afraid.) : )

PGA, I can't speak for Dom Kirby obviously, but I confess that I'm guilty of sometimes thinking the second option you list above. I am a former OF Catholic, if you want to call it that, and to expand on Dom Kirby's metaphorical langauge, at a certain point, when we could feel the foundation getting wobbly and felt like the smoke was getting a little thick, we bailed out of the Novus Ordo with our family and headed for the TLM, but that doesn't mean I don't have the greatest respect and admiration for OF liturgists and musicians who are, like heroic first responders, still in the burning building trying to save those who remain trapped in it.

Whether or not they can save the building is another question entirely, and I don't know exactly what those outside the building can do to help, except with our prayers and good will, and cheering you on.

That's not to say that over in our metaphorical EF building things are perfect. I'm not saying that at all, and I think Dom Kirby also mentioned something along those lines. I have always believed that much remains in the most current and detailed legislation on the EF (the 1957 De musica sacra) which has never been implemented. How about starting with the degrees of participation which I've always maintained were not just suggestions, but more like mandates?

But for me, it's about doing mass as Vatican II called for it.

This is precisely what's at issue.

Just so were not talking past each other.

I object to your characterization of Dom Kirby's declaration as not being news.

Julie, I'm sorry that we quibble over the scope. Kocik's/Kwasniewski's/Kirby's/Schaefer's et al's (see what I did there, Adam?) announcements are not up to the "Man bites dog" level of headlines; they are personal confessions that benefit us all, as you indicate, should we self-assess, emphasis upon "self."

I am a former OF Catholic, if you want to call it that, and to expand on Dom Kirby's metaphorical langauge, at a certain point, when we could feel the foundation getting wobbly and felt like the smoke was getting a little thick, we bailed out of the Novus Ordo with our family and headed for the TLM, but that doesn't mean I don't have the greatest respect and admiration for OF liturgists and musicians who are, like heroic first responders, still in the burning building trying to save those who remain trapped in it.

Now, I won't say I object to the above, but it is both astonishing to read and self-contradictory. Could you please cite something from CCC or the two creeds where a heirarchy of "Catholic" is outlined and lauded? Are you forecasting true schism with the Pauline hyperbole? Are we "first responders" at once both heroic and apostate?
Can you help me, please? I can't tell who the heretics are without a scorecard.
O gosh, I forgot, we don't have the scorecard according to Mt. 25. Not snarky, just illustrative.

I'm with PaixGloria...I'm sticking to what I do until I'm told to stop. My parishioners have not complained a bit since re-introducing the Introit and Communion Propers. They really enjoy singing the ICEL "Chant Mass" in Latin and others in English. I don't do "higgly-wiggly" music and our Masses seem , at least to me, a bit more dignified than some others at our parish. Maybe that's why the attendance is increasing at the masses I play for. ????

My parishioners have not complained a bit since re-introducing the Introit and Communion Propers.

I know mine would in a heartbeat, but that's probably due to the fact that there is a parish down the road where the "higgly wiggly" type of music is done on a regular basis. Many of our parishioners are travelers and only come to our church every so often. Many of those travelers go to the other parish I mentioned when they are not at ours.

I say it short and sweet: the issue is PREFERENCE. Somehow, PREFERENCE has become part of liturgy and it should not be.

I think that a pot of liturgical problems have much older roots than we would assume. In many places such as the USA and Australia, the Irish low mass has left a huge impression on the way we think of the mass. Get in, say it quickly and disappear before the English come in and bust us.

The reality is that in many parishes, not a lot fundamentally changed after Vatican II. We had had the 4-hymn sandwich at low mass for some time already and congregations were used to it. Very few places sang chant at all, certainly very few suburban parishes. Many places had a missa cantata once a month or only for the main Sunday morning mass.

If we all did the mass the way that Vatican II called for there would be less tension and less complaints.

The reform and return camps of liturgy have a hell of a lot in common and should get along better than they do.

Look again at Charles' quote of Pope Benedict XVI: "consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives."

"The Irish ruined the church in America." Well, that's what Thomas Day said.
The other day I was reading a book on the publishing firms of W. C. Peters, and encountered the claim that up to the Civil War, 2/3 of the parishes in the US had NO MUSIC AT ALL. Granted, a number of those parishes were on the frontier, but I still find it an incredible statistic (and I'm going back to give it the hairy eyeball). No hymns, no old-style chant... Low Mass day after day. Not even a broken-down square piano in the corner (which must have been the accompaniment as often as not, given how rare it is for early American Catholic music prints to specify "organ"). So when you start from there, there's farther to go to get to the conciliar ideal (which was really sort of an unfunded mandate.)

And even for "the native scene", most American church music composers were born in Europe... guys like Giorza, the Wiegands, Singenberger, La Hache, Curto. So stylistically, the US was Europe, but with fewer resources.

Unbelievable!

For example, this thread is rapidly updating, with more and more information that fills in the gaps you can drive a truck through.

To steal the title of an old article:
"There Are 1001 Liberal-vs.-Conservative Stories In The Church. This Is Not One Of Them."

More info here, written by a local Dallas Catholic blogger, who indicates this is not an anti-TLM move

http://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/fisher-more-denied-ability-to-offer-tlm/
http://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/more-on-fisher-more/

The fact that Wood lives in the city GUARENTEES that Fort Worth is a weird place.

COINCIDENCE? Is Adam Wood behind the wholesale destruction of the TLM (at daily Mass, at a college chapel, for a college with 25 students)????????

Sounds like a liberal conspiracy in the making. ;-)

You have to admit, the situation at that college seems strange. I wonder what is really going on there.

COINCIDENCE? Is Adam Wood behind the wholesale destruction of the TLM (at daily Mass, at a college chapel, for a college with 25 students)????????

Hate globally. Smash locally.