Choir Loft Flooring Help
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    If you were ripping carpet out of a (presently unused) choir loft and installing a new flooring (hopefully at a decently low cost), what type of tile/other flooring would you use?
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    We have laminate in our loft. This is easy to clean, cheap and easy enough to install. I find it a little noisy though. I'm not sure that real tile would be quieter.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    vinyl
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Like old used records?
    Thanked by 3francis Ben ZacPB189
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Hardwood.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    While not an expert, I believe the sub-floor has as much to do with sound projection as the final surface. Vinyl, while not as beautiful as real wood or tile, is certainly cheaper. But since it is so thin, adding an extra layer of plywood to the sub-floor may help not only to reflect musical sounds back into the room, but also to reduce the amount of foot noise from creaks and whatnot.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    The noise comes from high clicking heels...
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    because girls like to wear heels. :)
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Make them take their shoes off until they are seated.

  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    The heavier the material and colder it is to touch, the more that it reflects rather than absorbs sound.

    Trying to keep the sound of shoes walking being heard kills the sound of the choir and congregation.

    A catholic church with a children's choir of 52 (!) expanded the choir loft and carpeted the entire choir floor area so they "wouldn't hear the sound of 104 feet" walking into the loft.

    Intelligent enough to multiple 52 by 4, but not smart enough to understand that they are ruining the room for sound - sound will not carry from the loft - and sound in the loft will not fill the loft, so there will be pitch problems...none of this solved by microphones which makes everything worse.

    Heard 100 voice college choir last Sunday in a church that decided they HAD to amplify them - really destroyed the sound. But to make it really bizarre, this Methodist church played some contemporary classical violin piece over the speakers during the intermission.

    I happened to find the DM of that church singing with the catholics - and rehearsing them - my choir - in the Gasparini Adoramus Te when I arrived, and got to hear him say it had to be faster, faster..,we got started and did it MUCH slower, so effective. But he, singing in a dead room with his choir - where they HAD to sing it fast, didn't have a clue.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    Do NOT kill the acoustics for concern of quiet feet. Feet are only heard when the choir is coming in and going out. A few minutes before and after Mass. Don't destroy the ambiance and architecture of sacred music for sake of 'complainers' of feet! Give them choir shoes. It's a much better solution.

    There is a beautiful Cassavant organ in our town. It is in a building that has absolutely dead acoustics. It is like playing into a pillow. I am not interested to EVER play it.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • carljn
    Posts: 23
    Rip out the subfloor to the joists and use insulation or other sound deadening material like crazy between the joists (just make sure there are no moisture problems and everything is done to code). Then get good thick plywood (as thick as you can go without making the final surface too high) and put a sound reflective surface like hardwood (ash, white oak) or polished cararra marble (not as expensive as you think, around $15 a square foot). This way you get a lively surface but the heels and books dropping will sounds more like thuds than pops. Finish by painting the walls with acoustic paint (or at least a harder, glossier, oil based paint) to liven the whole space!

    Expensive, somewhat, but eternally durable and will sound great!
  • carljn
    Posts: 23
    Missed the low cost!

    The insulation is cheap, and get salvaged hardwood to refinish. That way it is reflective and has a beautiful historic patina!
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Don't forget to glue the plywood to the rafters and lay a sheets of matting under the final floor to reduce squeeking of the boards
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    use insulation or other sound deadening material like crazy between the joists


    Anytime that you do anything like this to control sound it does reduce the amount of resonance in the building. The resultant noises sound like thuds...and so does the reflected sound from that surface as a result.

    Any church seriously interested in improving acoustics for clarity of speech and musical sound should contact Scott Riedel.
  • carljn
    Posts: 23
    I'm curious. How would a reflected wave of relatively low intensity (I.e. The human voice) be at all affected by the composition of the substrate? It should stand to reason that unless you are aiming an amplified wave directly at a surface, thus making the angle of incidence zero, that the absorption of the reflected wave would only depend on the top surface.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    I am curious, too, which is why I have studies this in my work.

    This, I apologize, is way beyond me:
    unless you are aiming an amplified wave directly at a surface, thus making the angle of incidence zero

    I have absolutely no scientific explanation. Every surface that reflects sound also absorbs some degree of it - in the case of concrete, the entire mass of concrete, most is reflected, but sounds will travel even through the concrete.

    Though the human voice is in a medium pitch range, differences in tuning among singers produce very low frequencies that form part of the sound.

    A hard surface with absorptive material behind it to quiet things down will absorb sound. A surface based upon wood backing will absorb more sound.

    All that insulation backing will do is reduce the resonance of the cavity it is in. Which reduces the sound pressure from the source.

    Dramatic differences in musical sound rely upon reflection and resonance. That's one string reason why concert halls and theaters have wooden floored stages.

    The moment that you let anything be done to temper the sound response of a building, aside from strips of wood to disperse standing waves, you are courting disaster...solved by microphones, which solve nothing.



    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 493
    We have a high quality laminate with real oak nosing. The floor resonates like a sound board, and is easy to clean, most soiling and scuffs sweep away. Handles heavy scaffolding too. pic pic 2
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    There are two factors (which Noel points out). One is reflection the other is resonance. Reflection is the act of sound bouncing off a surface. Resonance absorbs the sound and disperses it indirectly into the materials surrounding and/or attached to it. This is why an organ case (always found in tracker organs) offer another level of 'resonant sound' which is very much unlike the direct sound waves of the speaking pipe into the air. The sound resonates into the wood of the organ case and is 'melllowed', delayed, altered and is additive to the overall sound of the speaking pipe(s). The same is true for footprints in the choir loft. Sound can travel THROUGH the wood and out the bottom of the loft. It may be muffled, but it is noise nonetheless.
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