As someone posted a few months back, watch for turnover in these high-profile positions. The quicker the turnover, the more difficult the working environment is (one can assume) for the organist/choirmaster.

Or it can save someone thousands of dollars and life changing stress and save the church involved much heartache.

PGA, to be honest, I think it's just an attempt to not discourage applicants. It was legion when I got out of grad school for every place that paid 30k a year to ask for "MM plus 5 years' experience": yeah right! Plus, this is COLLABORATE with a contemporary ensemble, not direct it. Why can't we all get along? If any of this on the board don't think we'll have to collaborate with Hispanic Mass musicians, for instance, in our lifetime, we are mistaken. Plus, this is a good opportunity to "spread the good news" of authentic sacred music.

Finally, cathedral positions often wouldn't want someone to just "take it wherever": they are the bishop's church, and the ordinary should have a say...period. Also, it is not unheard of for people to want to leave "pressure cooker" jobs...metropolitan archdiocese can fit that description.

We could have many discussions about bad job posting descriptions...this ain't one of 'em.

I am with PGA on this one. Too often, musicians relocate at great expense to take a job that previous job holders have run screaming from. It's good to know such things in advance before uprooting family and moving. If the employer's feelings get hurt a bit from calling a spade a spade, and a hellhole a hellhole, so be it. Keep in mind I know nothing of this particular job and whether it is a spade or the other.

I actually rejected my first teaching opportunity at a public school because of the way the admins treated the incumbent. They likely wouldn't have treated me that way, but who's to say? I didn't take the job. Kinda wish I had: it was a country school heavily rooted in athletics but the kids were good.

Soooo, I just figured that someone who might be looking for a job might seize the opportunity to apply for a Cathedral. I noticed the bit about the Contemporary music, but I hold nothing against any institution that doesn't seek overly qualified candidates. I would be happy to work at a Cathedral for less than standard pay for the experience and resume padding. Regardless, I would rather let someone decide if it is right for his/herself.

My point in stimulating this discussion was this:

Yes, this "hobby horse" is personal. I went and interviewed for a job 800 miles from home that seemed ideal. The committee put on a good face. I, being from far away, was necessarily naive and relied on whatever I could grasp at to make my decision on whether to go. The money was ok, the people seemed nice, the opportunity looked good.

I went to whomever I could and tried to make contacts in that area to find out information. Everyone that I contacted, thinking EXACTLY as many here do, told me "Oh, it's a good parish" etc.

It wasn't until much later on that someone who lived in the area told me "Oh everyone knows how the people are at St. ____ and that they had a tradition of crazy liturgy." The "tradition" had died mostly before I got there, but the aftershocks were always just beneath the surface.

My point? Someone with the courage could have said to me "Look, the job might be right for you, but they have a reputation around the diocese. The weird stuff that happened was only a couple years ago and they are known as cranky people, for what it's worth." But everyone thought that the charitable thing to do was just let the outsider walk right into the hole.

Had someone said that to me, I wouldn't have moved across the country, etc. etc.

This is why I think that analyzing situations - yes publicly - is important.

If I ever leave my current job, I will be more than upfront with anyone about the drawbacks, potential challenges, as well as the positives, which I believe greatly outweigh any negatives. But I would welcome someone to make up their own mind.

Right: I understand. It's just that many of the things you experienced in that situation are very complicated. I don't think I would interview somewhere that didn't pay for things; in one case, I DID, and figured they were paying for everything (since they paid for a flight, etc.) They had me there for three days...no offer to repay for meals, and I was on my own for every one! You just never know.

Likewise about jobs themselves. It's really impossible to know the politics ahead of time.

Also, with respect, I don't see how CharlesW's comment would apply in this case. We all take risks. I don't know of any musician who has worked any length of time and HASN'T had significant professional disappointment. I can think of 3-5 people just from those who post here fairly regularly. It does rather go with the territory. I just don't see how this job description would evoke any of those bad memories for us.

The best you can do (after they call you for an interview, pay for it, you go) is lay it out on the table (about what you plan to do) during your interview, especially if you have a family, and hope for the best. I have at both my full time jobs with reasonable to great results: the first, much of it went over heads (to my frustration), but it was not malicious. Again, we can only pray, be prudent, and hope for the best. And yes, you will forget things...like how much the healthcare premium is (not that I would ever do anything so stupid...errr...)