Don't hold your breath waiting for me to play "On Eagles Wings." You will die first from lack of oxygen. I hope Michael Joncas has to spend eternity listening to it.

On Eagles Wings and more bad music and bad theology has become the ersatz Foie Gras forced down out of good Catholic throats for more than 50 years. To kick this music out and alienate these generations is just as bad as what was done back then.

I agree. And that is why I will grit my teeth, and smile and try to play Eagles' Wings this weekend with as much love as Therese of Lisieux dealt with the sister in the community who had the knack of rubbing her the wrong way..
(And then go to solemn Vespers at St John Cantius to drive the earworm out of my head and the devil out of my soul...)

Save the Liturgy, Save the World!

No, I disagree with so much of that. #1, it is my interpretation of Vatican 2 that the primary goal was the elimination of the Low Mass, in legislation and in practice. The ideal Mass of Vatican 2 would have seen chant have pride of place, much of it sung by the congregation, and excellence in music. And this fits into MY hermeneutic of continuity - "nothing changes" - we have Masses that are 45 minutes long with a few verses of 4 vernacular hymns. That's the Low Mass. The Low Mass needs to die for the sake of Catholicism. And that goes for the horrid idea of a Sunday Mass without music. Sacred music IS Catholicism. I don't see Noel saying "well, some people like modernist architecture, and some like imitation Baroque, so let's stick people in a white, plain box-room and celebrate Mass on a white table so no one is forced to tolerate architecture they don't like!" And I WOULD argue that modern interpretations of church design, done well, are equally valid to any other period - I would NOT say the same of modernist music vs. chant!! Apologizing for the slur against protestants, but that's exactly what you become when you try to separate "the part that matters" from the Tradition!

And I suspect this and the chorus of "amens" is based on a feeling that OEW can't be gotten rid of. It can be - I've done it. It's really quite easy - you put the numbers of any other hymn on the board. You need to have a VERY thick skin, a little thicker than mine even. And you need a pastor with a spine - there are so few, God send us such men!! But, given a year without it or anything sounding close, people will lose hope. I hate to use metaphors of fighting in Churchly discussions, but that's what this is. Why are we so happy to give in on music? As I once said to a priest, if you were asked to shut up about Christ and just tell jokes at the sermon, would you? Why should we do the equivalent with our music?

In a way, the pastor and seminarians were right to toss the statue in the river. To them the statue represented a harmful devotion and a thing incompatible with Catholicism. It needed to be removed. Their presumptions, that Marian devotion through art was harmful and statuary is incompatible with a 'new' Catholicism, were dead wrong. BUT why shouldn't we take steps to keep people from kissing the feet of secularism during the Mass? Yes, good and holy people DO find a strong devotion to Christ through trash music. And that is why we have to dump Joncas in the river - their spirituality is stuck in the 60s and we have something timeless to offer them.

Gavin,

The Mass has nothing to do with music. And to think that you must have music at Mass is a very Vatican II thing. And it is wrong. There are rubrics for the rites, there are lists and lists of things that the kind of candles, the number of candles, the exact percentage of bees wax for certain candles, but there is ONLY one, sole and true instruction that talks about the presence of music AT the Mass.

In the NO the Alleluia is OMITTED if not sung. The Mass, TLM or NO does not become invalid if there is no music. The Mass is not lessened by the absence of music. Even STTL says this when it calls for SILENCE. Beware of making too much music, be sure there is silence.

And as far as the statue being a harmful devotion? That's up to God, not a bunch of inebriated seminarians.

Women of piety approach a statue,,,,the Priest approaches the Altar, housing a relic. They all bow and offer a kiss.

Let's do it the way of the Marine's....but in a kinder way: Once they have passed on to their reward, let's let God sort it out.

During the past two years at SJN On Eagles Wings, Let There Be Peace on Earth and all suspect non-theological hymns have been not sung and all bad music hymns (dance beat, verses that differ in metre and choruses that differ in metre except for the singing of EYE HATH NOT HEARD twice have been banned and not done in any Mass in which I have planned the music.

Hymns have been secretly changed behind my back for various reasons, but only from a select list that is acceptable.

It is easy to be a seminarian, even the one who had no intent of ever being ordained and was hiding from the draft board and Vietnam, and know what is incompatible with Catholcism. Be a 60 year old lady whose husband died when she was 30 and who has worn black every day since and prayed for his soul at at 10,951 Masses since he died (she went to morning Mass before his funeral Mass) and who venerated the statue every time she passed it, praying to Mary for the forgiveness she is trying to feel for him, a man who broke commandments as if they were bread at the Sunday table, gambled their money away, and left her with nothing and the fear that he would rot in heell....

Give her back her statue.

Funeral music???!! That song should be given its own funeral, preferably outside of the Church's official liturgies. Better songs may include, "Thine be the Glory, risen..."

If the funeral Mass is the official prayer of the Church for the repose of the deceased, then it stands to reason that the deceased are entitled to something better, even if they are no longer capable of expressing their wishes.

Let us not burn the bodies of EAGLES WINGS on street corners. It is not our job to rip what little people have now away from them and force them to listen to chant. This has been tried over and over again in the Church and it has always failed to have the impact it should as is proven by the fact that EAGLES WINGS exists.

Phase it out, sing it at Masses, sing Chant at other Masses...when your chant singing is attracting more people than the strumming of guitars, THEN you have truly succeeded. Otherwise we are going to end up with SpeakEasy Churches....and never elevate Chant.

Maybe OEW (and the like) could be recognised for what it is: music suitable outside formal worship. There's not much constructive about rubbishing "Jesus Christ, You are my life" and its ilk as void of worth when it most definitely has a place. I'd rather a teenager wander down the street humming the latter (or even OEW!) than Ella Ella Ella E E E....

I agree with urli completely. Promote OEW! Every church MUST sing it! But not during Mass!

Would it be helpful to sing all the not-so-great stuff as devotional music before Mass?

What are some established, or working definitions, to identify both "genres"?

What makes "sacred music", sacred?
What makes "we worship each other" music, not suitable for liturgy?

Perhaps a compilation of articles would be appropriate?

(In a related thought, a friend of mine reflected on the differences between liturgical, devotional, and private prayer. We agreed most music sung at our parish "youth Mass" clearly did not belong in the first category. We had a difficult time using technical words to explain our reasons. Yes, Jacqui, I'm talking about you.)


UPDATE:
http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=507

"The Low Mass needs to die for the sake of Catholicism."

I find this an unacceptable comment.

As Catholics, we are called to die for the glorious, ineffable, holy, wonderful Mass.

My happiest memories are Low Masses.

Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of the comment.

Well, it goes back at least 105 years to Pope St. Pius X and Tra le sollecitudini:

"Sacred music, being a complementary part of the solemn liturgy, participates in the general scope of the liturgy, which is the glory of God and the sanctification and edification of the faithful."

If you have to sing "Here I Am Lord" at a funeral, shouldn't God already know you are There with Him? The protestant hymn, "His Eye is On the Sparrow" is so much more Catholic than Here I Am:

Why should I feel discouraged, why should the shadows come,
Why should my heart be lonely, and long for heaven and home,
When Jesus is my portion? My constant friend is He:
His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me;
His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me.

Refrain

I sing because I’m happy,
I sing because I’m free,
For His eye is on the sparrow,
And I know He watches me.

“Let not your heart be troubled,” His tender word I hear,
And resting on His goodness, I lose my doubts and fears;
Though by the path He leadeth, but one step I may see;
His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me;
His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me.

Refrain

Whenever I am tempted, whenever clouds arise,
When songs give place to sighing, when hope within me dies,
I draw the closer to Him, from care He sets me free;
His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me;
His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me.

Refrain

Civilla Martin, 1905 Text now in Public Domain.


This is more St. Augustine that St. Louis Jesuits...

ISTM the whole argument about whether or not music is an intrinsic part of the Mass becomes moot once you get past this silly idea and come to understand that the single most appropriate "music" for the Mass, chant, is not music at all, but rather an ancient formulaic way of cantillating a text.

Once you've done that, it naturally follows that the highest degree of participation by the congregation happens when they chant the dialogic responses to the priests. Now, in the EF are these responses necessary? No, and part of our theology teaches us that we're not the only ones in attendance at any Mass . . . we, rather, have the privilege of joining the angels and saints who forever sing of God's glory before the throne of grace. To think that the sound of our own voices is the sine qua non of God-glorifying liturgy is, to my mind, the height of pride.

Low Masses certainly do have a place, and I think a return to them would do wonders in truly helping the faithful regain their Catholic identity.

Hymns not to be sung at a funeral:
1. "Father, We Thank Thee Who Hast Planted"

The Muslims have a similar attitude towards chant. To them it's not even considered music. OTOH any actual music that approaches the style of Koranic chant is considered the most elevated. We can learn something from them.

chonak, did I mention "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes?"

Ha! I wrote "threat"! Freudian slip.

my comfort food is a scotch... spiritual equivalent to the Requiem Mass and chanted in Latin.

Back in 2008 it seemed prudent to not rip away all the poorly written words and music in use then, as it was done in the 1970's.

But, it's time now. Only bald eagles are protected. This emotional, heartstrings touching music belongs at prayer service, which Catholic won't go to, even to sing their beloved songs, so it's a polite way of killing them.

I thank God every day that I do not have to musically and liturgically prostitute myself in my current job by singing OEW and presenting that to Him during Mass. Many good musicians can't get around it, because of (arguably) pastoral reasons.

I concur with the folks saying it's suitable for religious and devotional music. Go for it! Just keep it out of masses that people are obligated to attend.

Charles and Chonak... My husband thinks it's funny to hum 'Return to Sender' as I leave to sing or direct a requiem. Sad to say, I still chuckle at it after all these years.

I once called someone a prostitute who wasn't a prostitute. My excuse was that I was a little kid who didn't know what the word meant, just (from the Gospels) that it was shokingly insulting.

Contrary to Frogman's statement of October 2008 [which I've just read] no religion of any significance in any culture in world history has operated effectively without music. In fact music in some cases, singing let us suggest, is more important than speaking. One can, of course, cite the Quakers, but that is essentially an American religious group and is generally singular in recognized religious observances in Christianity.

I think, if you look at the Bible itself for this, since we are within a Christian context here, we shall find King David writing at the behest of the Holy Spirit just how the Lord would have music set up as part of His worship. We note here I Chronicles 15:16-24 and, later, I Chronicles 25, all of it, in which David goes into considerable detail about music in the worship of the Godhead and who should be in charge of it: Levi and his sons. . . . .because they knew and understood it. St. Matthew even indicates in Matthew 26:30 that Jesus and the apostles sang a hymn [probably one of the Psalms] before going up to the Mount of Olives.

Low Mass is equivalent to the early Christians in the sense that everything can be done quickly. In the catacombs time was essential. This is long since no longer the case, though a large parish could afford a Low Mass, say at 7:30 a.m.. We do not have that sense of fear in the USA [not yet anyway] of worshiping God in the more elaborate manner which has been a part of our history for centuries. So we have the choir, we have the organ, we have brass and other orchestral instruments on special occasions. As was pointed out some time ago, Vatican II supported all of this; it was never negated and chant was given pride of place.

St. Paul has given us to understand that the Church was to be a refuge from the world, that entering a Church permits the individual to get away from the secular. Following Vatican II we had those whose understanding of Christianity was somewhat limited. They chose to bring the secular into the Church and thereby transform the Church into a secular institution, not to keep it as the bride of Christ. Simultaneously, we have colleges and universities preaching a similar secular doctrine so that we have a generation of people [who generally did not think for themselves anyway] bent out of shape here with respect to what Christianity was all about. To them life was an instant gratification of the nerve ends and the Church must fit into that philosophy.

Of all the arts music is by far the most powerful and influential, emotionally and intellectually, and affects more of the brain and general bodily functions than anything else even remotely equivalent. The Church has known that from the outset which is why the big fights between sacred and secular music which began to get serious in the 15th and 16th centuries. The dichotomy has become more pronounced with the passage of time.

For those who prefer cocktail lounge music in the Church, "Eagle Beak" is probably fine. But, then, their religious foundation could be called into question. Along with that is "Here I Am, Lord" better titled "Where Am I, Lord?", since that falls into the same religious confusion. Music has a spirit and music has motive all of which is knowable. To the thinking Christian [or any thinking person for that matter] the spirit and motive of any given piece of music is usually obvious in rather immediate terms. When we say "contemporary" music or composers, we should be speaking of composers of music intended for the elevation of Christian worship, e.g. Vaughn Williams, Howells, Ireland et al in the English tradition or Distler, Brahms, Schroeder, Rheinberger et al in the German tradition or Berger and Sowerby et al in the American tradition. That's aside from plainchant which needs no argument.

Our bench fees are $200.00, more if there is extensive consultations for weddings. That's only fair. Who makes an appointment with a medical doctor and 1] expects to receive a diagnosis for free or 2] fails to keep the appointment and doesn't expect to be charged for it?

"Who makes an appointment with a medical doctor and ... expects to receive a diagnosis for free ..."

-a Canadian?

This idea was firmly trounced by the organist at my parish as she would not learn and play different music for masses to make this possible. And the cantors hated it too.