Secular organizations offering concerts
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    Heads up!

    If an outside organization offers to help your parish concert series by presenting a concert of sacred music, at no cost to you, should you say yes right away? Not always.

    A few days ago I found out about a choral concert to be held at a Catholic church in this area. It's going to present a major classical sacred work, and they're looking for singers. Normally I'd have volunteered to perform that familiar music again in a second.

    But the sponsoring organization rang a bell. Hey, aren't they part of some strange movement? They were.

    In a few seconds, I confirmed that the organization preparing this concert was a political group. It's the cultural arm of a fringe political movement that has described as cult-like.

    They've been holding concerts in various states, and sometimes in Catholic churches. When they presented one in November in the metro-Washington area, it was preceded by over 20 minutes of introductory talk, to position this group as some sort of voice of cultural restoration, with messages of congratulation sent in by naive clergy from far away, and an audio message from a cranky ex-congressman.

    It may be a sincere cultural project (because the group is a strong supporter of classical music), but it's also a way to give a good image to this rather bizarre organization, and maybe solicit donations, and maybe recruit people.

    If you get an offer for a free concert, check it out carefully; it might turn into an embarrassment.

    In this particular case, it seems to be too late to cancel the concert. The most that the pastor can do is to make it an arm's-length arrangement in which the church is not sponsoring the concert and is not receiving or paying any money for it. Maybe they can impose some restraints on what the group does while it's in the building.
    Thanked by 3bkenney27 CHGiffen Chris Hebard
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Maybe they can impose some restraints on what the group does while it's in the building.

    Of course they can: for instance, no introductory talk. My house, my rules.

    In this particular case, it seems to be too late to cancel the concert.

    It might be "too late" in the sense of politeness and fair play, but a concert can be cancelled at any time at all (including while the concert is going on, hehe). Unless a contract is involved, of course.
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Agreed with Mark- no introductory talk is a fair restriction. Such a step could go a long way in reducing embarrassment and possible scandal.

    It's kind of smarmy to offer to present a concert and then insert a promotional talk anyway.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Such a step could go a long way in reducing embarrassment and possible scandal.


    And it may save a soul or two! How horrendous!
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,198
    It cuts both ways, unfortunately.

    Some years ago, as a member and musician at my local parish (elsewhere) and as a member of an early music performing group, I arranged some 8 or 9 months in advance to have a concert of early sacred music performed by my group in our church, and the date was put on the church calendar. Our group had previously sung one of its Christmas concerts there, so it all seemed just right. Autumn came and concert announcements went out, tickets where sent to the outlets for the concert, and tickets were selling quite well (the group has a solid reputation in early music there).

    About two and a half weeks before the scheduled concert I went in to the parish office to see what our ensemble and I needed to do as far as logistics, etc. I was told that we were not on the calendar and some college religious group had been scheduled there instead sometime in the previous two weeks. I appealed to the pastor ... to no avail, getting only an apology for the "mixup" ... which left our ensemble in a mad scramble to find another venue (which turned out to be the more hospitable Baptist church), get publicity out about the venue and time change.

    We pushed the start time later by 30 minutes and were able to post big signs at the Catholic church informing those who went there that the concert had been moved and would start 30 minutes later elsewhere. Needless to say, the early music group (which often has performed Renaissance Masses in reconstructed period settings) has never even considered singing at that Catholic church again.
  • Bassorous
    Posts: 24
    An approach to this situation might be for the parish to substitute their own speaker, say the DM, to give the introductory talk. Content could be focused on the history of the pieces on the program. Short bios of the composer or composers would also be appropriate. This would prevent the outside group from delivering their political message and give the audience information that should add to their enjoyment of the concert.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,810
    Chonak, I'm sure you don't wish to tar all secular organizations, but I don't understand the need to be so secretive in your well-intentioned warning. Is this by any chance a group that sings at Verdi pitch?
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Wow. The singers who signed petitions to use Verdi pitch are among the most highly regarded of the last century. Fascinating.

    I wonder if there are proponents of Verdi pitch among excellent early music performers.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,115
    Interesting, when I read the news of that concert in my bulletin, I did not connect the organization with LaRouche!
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,199
    @ MaryAnn. In many baroque and early music circles, 415 is the desired possibility or even 392. Both have historical precedents.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,985
    What I have wondered, and no one has given me a good answer, is how early musicians knew exactly whether it was 415, 440, or something else. They didn't have electronic devices to measure pitches exactly, so was it dependent on the ear of the musician? Was there a master pipe for "A" in the Schnitger basement that was the standard? Just curious.
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    What I have wondered, and no one has given me a good answer, is how early musicians knew exactly whether it was 415, 440, or something else. They didn't have electronic devices to measure pitches exactly,


    EXACTLY.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 837
    The 'Verdi Pitch' people are closely related to organizations started by a well-known figure whose name is similar to the art historical term 'cartouche'.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,199
    These pitches are verified by the organs in the towns of Germany and other places. I played an organ in Lubeck that was at 415 and built in the 1700s. You could tell the difference.

    Travel and see the world and meet organs at different pitches.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,985
    Kevin, I realize they were different in different places. But did they have anything as a standard they measured pitch against, and could they verify pitch against the standard? Was this a case of Arp Blastemsnott built organs at 415 in Berlin, and his cousin Shlomo Blastemsnott built them at 420 in Wiesbaden?
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Kevin, I've heard of 415, etc. I just wondered if any early music groups were proponents of 432 specifically. My guess is no because the instruments (other than voice) would be a different set than later orchestral instruments.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,198
    The early music ensemble with which I was associated for a dozen years used A=415 as the pitch standard almost always whenever playing with period instruments and often even when singing a cappella. There were occasional deviations from this, allowing for known pitches of old organs in certain locations of Europe connected with works of the period. However, A=415 was the general standard unless there were reasons to deviate from that standard.

    It's also the case that this pitch is a semitone lower than A=440, which has caused several modern harpsichords (and not a few modern portative organs) to be made with a keyboard that can be shoved to the left to obtain A=415 and to the right to obtain A=440. It seems to me more likely that A=415 became a modern standard for early music because of its being simply a semitone transposition downwards from modern A=440 pitch, making accompaniment possible with modern instruments by tranposing and with period instruments without transposing.
  • R J StoveR J Stove
    Posts: 302
    If we are indeed talking about the LaRouchies, then the only advice I could possibly give would be: run, do not walk, to the exit, at the first sign that they're involved in anything. For some reason Australia - Melbourne in particular - has become a LaRouche stronghold. The True Believers have kiosks downtown, in all weathers, and appear apt to infiltrate almost any political organization to the right of Fidel Castro.

    I remember when A Manual on the Rudiments of Tuning and Registration, vol. 1, The Singing Voice - apparently one of the sacred texts for pro-LLR mavens - was reviewed in American Record Guide (May 1993). The reviewer was baffled, understandably so. But he made that text sound almost sane compared with what might be called the standard LLR-"musicology" line on Wagner's Ring:

    What is surprising is that this anti-Semitic filth should be revived by the Los Angeles Opera at precisely the moment when President Obama and the gutless, immoral Congress have passed health care legislation which incorporates Hitler's death policy for “useless eaters,” under the guise of “saving money,” and when brutal budget cuts by that son-of-a-Nazi Governor Schwarzenegger are hastening the deaths of many poor, elderly and sick Californians. Has L.A. Opera, which is careening toward bankruptcy, no shame? Does Los Angeles County have nothing better to do with $13 million, than bail out L.A. Opera, so that it can celebrate the monstrous sexual fantasies, and the cult of violence, of that vile anti-Semite, Wagner?


    The whole diatribe is here:

    http://schillerinstitute.org/educ/reviews/2010/schlanger_wagner_ringworm.html

    Actually it's not a lot more barking-nutso than certain denunciations of 19th-century opera heard on the lips of a few individual Catholics I've encountered over the years. Even those Catholic crackpots, though, refrained from the LLR dogma that (I am not making this up) "Leonard Slatkin Serves Satan":

    http://cellofun.yuku.com/topic/14503#.UtZSaPQW1u4
    Thanked by 1Daniel Bennett Page
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,985
    Some forget that Wagner died many years before there was a Hitler on the scene. Wagner may have been anti-Semitic, but so were many others of his time. He didn't get any of that from Hitler, who being an opportunist, used Wagner and anything else he could subvert into support for himself.

    Haven't encountered LaRouche supporters in this part of the world. They are probably present, I just haven't run into them. He's a real nut, but those always seem to find a following, don't they? We do have Birchers, and they are a bit crazy, too.
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,115
    Well, I found out last night that even a secular musical arts federation (the Greater Boston Choral Consortium) declined to list a concert hosted by said organization upon doing prompt due diligence. One wonders if staff at the hosted location are going to be surprised on Sunday (I have no connections with them, but if anyone does, it might be wise to tip them off).
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    A contact tells me that they are now informed.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    A friend attending the concert reports that the music is very good but was preceded by an awful 40 minutes of blather. Congratulatory messages and political quasi-religious stuff.
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