Music for Advent IV
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    I would like to ask your opinion on music for Sunday Advent IV.

    The scenario is a parish that is used to contemporary church music but has a lovely pipe organ that was acquired a few years ago.

    I've suggested to have "O Come Emanuel" as one of the hymns (will probably be the entrance.)

    For the offertory I see that the Ave Maria is the prescribed text. Would "Hail Mary, Gentle Woman" be a suitable choice?

    For communion it has been suggested that we use a song about Christ being born of Mary. Apparently it is one sung by Mariah Carey and the children in the choir know it.

    I'm only a substitute organist there, but I am trying to work in some more traditional music.

    The children did learn the latin first verse of Adeste Fidelis for the carols event, which follows shortly after that mass. Hopefully a sign of good things to come.

    I'm open to ideas and suggestions. I may not get to implement them this year, but it will help give me something to work towards for the future.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    The Mariah Carey song is probably "Mary, Did You Know?" and I cannot recommend that for use in a Catholic church. Its lyrics cannot be easily squared with the dogma of the Immaculate Conception (Mary was indeed redeemed by Christ, but by divine favor in anticipation of Christ's coming; the lyrics of the song depict Mary as being delivered/redeemed after Christ's coming.)

    I can't embrace Hail Mary Gentle Woman as a piece of musical composition. The text is not a problem the way it is in the other suggestion. If you can't sing a chant (Latin or vernacular) version of the Hail Mary, do you have a setting of the Magnificat you can sing?
    Thanked by 1teachermom24
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Song writer, "Mary, did you know?" (rather, did-ja know)
    Mary: "Yes, the Angel Gabriel told me before it all happened."

    ---

    Hail Mary Gentle Women is also not a personal favorite, though if it's in the parish hymnal it may be difficult to argue against it. I always found the Ave Maria by Daniel Kantor a better contemporary alternative to Gentle Woman. One could even teach the chant melody to be sung in conjunction with the contemporary tune.

    And if you do get stuck playing Gentle Woman, please transpose it up. It's published key is much too low for children's voices.


  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Harley, I know you can't rock the boat too much, and it sounds like you're doing all you can to ease the way towards more traditional music. Keep trying!

    It's a real shame that such a homogenized, parochial (pun intended), impoverished musicality persists in the Catholic church, esp. when you contrast what you find at your typical Catholic suburban parish with the music program at Grace Episcopal Church in liberal Manhattan.

    Their music list for the Sundays of Advent:

    Sunday 1 December 2013, Advent 1, The Holy Eucharist Rite I
    The Adult Choir

    Hymns 57, Lo! he comes, with clouds descending……..HELMSLEY
    …….616, Hail to the Lord’s Anointed…….ES FLOG EIN KLEINS WALDVOGELEIN
    …..54, Savior of the nations, come!…….NUN KOMM DER HEIDEN HEILAND
    …..72, Hark! the glad sound! the Savior comes…….RICHMOND
    …..61, Sleepers, wake!…….WACHET AUF

    Introit, Oculi omnium…….Charles Wood (1866-1926)
    Psalm 122. Lætatus sum…….Anglican Chant (Bairstow)
    Offertory Anthem, Behold, I bring you glad tidings…….Orlando Gibbons (1583-1625)
    Communion Anthem, Bring us, O Lord God!…….William H. Harris (1883-1973)

    Kyrie, Hymnal S-91…….Healey Willan (1880-1968)
    Sanctus, Hymnal S-114…….Healey Willan
    Agnus Dei, Hymnal S-158…….Healey Willan

    Prelude Wake, awake for night is flying……..Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750)
    Postlude: Fuge in g-moll, BWV 578…….Johann Sebastian Bach


    Sunday 22 December 2013, Advent IV, Morning Prayer, Rite I
    The Adult Choir

    Hymns
    . ......74, Blest be the King whose coming…….VALET WILL ICH DIR GEBEN
    …….269, Ye who claim the faith of Jesus…….DEN DES VATERS SINN GEBOREN
    …….265, The angel Gabriel from heaven came…….GABRIEL’S MESSAGE
    …….81, Lo, how a Rose e’er blooming…….ES IST EIN ROS
    …….79, O little town of Bethlehem…….ST. LOUIS

    Jubilate……..Anglican Chant (W. Russell)

    Magnificat………..Charles Wood in F (1866-1926)
    Benedictus in C……..C. Villiers Stanford (1852-1924)
    Hosanna to the Son of David…….Thomas Weelkes (c.1575-1623)

    Prelude Ciaconna in e-moll, BWV 533……….Dietrich Buxtehude (1637-1707)
    Postlude Toccata in F-Dur, BWV 540…….Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750)

    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    When I get my car fixed (needs a new clutch) I hope to take up more regular position at that parish. It's either a 25 minute drive or 2 hours by public transport.

    I have been doing some testing of the waters asking for a few more traditional hymns. If I was the regular organist for that mass I would have a bit more influence over the choices of music.

    The plan at the moment is to slowly insert more traditional hymns as time goes on. There are no hymnals but only a projection screen. This may change when Catholic Worship II is published. Ive seen the draft and like it. (A friend of mine is the editor. )
  • Unda_Maris
    Posts: 53
    Hartley -- If you can find "Sing of Mary, Pure and Lowly" (tune: "Pleading Savior"), it would be a perfect him as an entrance, offertory or closing hymn for Advent IV. I would avoid "Hail Mary, Gentle Woman" at all costs, if possible. Both its text and melody is an insult to good hymnody....especially to the BVM. If you need anthems, I recommend "Rorate Caeli" -- C. Tye or a setting of "Alma Redemptoris Mater". And if you have the organ collection of "Twelve Chorales on Gregorian Themes" - J. Demessieux, her setting of "Rorate Caeli" isn't difficult and a perfect prelude to the Mass. Hope this is helpful.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    I'm a substitute organist at this parish and basically get handed a music list. I try to influence the music choices in a better direction but have a limited say.

    In other news, another parish has approached me with a job offer to play for Saturday vigils and Sunday evenings and is happy to deal with the fact that my cathedral choir gig takes first preference.

    Hopefully an opportunity to reform a parish's liturgy and music.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen rich_enough
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    For Hartley or anyone else: don't overlook Bach's marvelous Fuga sopra il Magnificat as a magnificent prelude or postlude on Advent IV.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I will program "Holy is His Name" by John Michael Talbot on Marian feasts when I want to throw a bone to the contemporary people who assist in the choir on those days. It's not horrible in my opinion and much better than "Mary did you know" and "Hail Mary Gentle Woman".
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    I agree with DonR. JMT's "Holy is His Name" really isn't that bad and I use it with a clear conscience :)
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    I,too, use the JMT. People love it and it is perfect for Advent IV
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