Position of Cantor during Mass.
  • JTKB715
    Posts: 1
    Hi. We are having a bit of a disagreement in my church. My choir director seems to think that in addition to singing the Psalm refrain from the Ambo that it is also o.k. to sing the Gospel acclamation from the same place. In every church I have visited, the cantor sings the Psalm from the Ambo, but then moves to a different location (usually the opposite side of the altar), to sing the Gospel acclamation. In our church the cantor is blocking the priest from getting to the Ambo until the Gospel acclamation is finished. Awkward! Does anyone have the proper protocol to follow. Thanks.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Position of the cantor? six feet under sounds good. LOL. Some days I feel like that. I have never heard of "musical cantors" like this, but I keep my cantors in the loft.
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    Proper protocol? According to GIRM 308 (in part):

    From the ambo only the readings, the Responsorial Psalm, and the Easter Proclamation (Exsultet) are to be proclaimed; likewise it may be used for giving the Homily and for announcing the intentions of the Universal Prayer.


    This also puts to bed speculation I have read that the antiphons of the Mass should be intoned from the ambo, as well.

    Moreover, since I'm a practical person, I agree with you that the traffic jam formed by said practice makes it just not worth it.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    The only time the Gospel Acclamation would be sung from the ambo is if the cleric proclaiming the Gospel were singing it. A cantor does not belong there in that ritual moment.

    I suspect, though, your cantor is relying on a microphone, and that the microphone available is in the ambo. To which I would suggest: sing out, Louise! Just from another location, sans microphone or strip-tease.

    Thanked by 2melofluent CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    And please don't forget the ubiquitous "another suitable" location.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW francis
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I subbed at a church once where they had actually removed the cantor's mic and the cantor did everything from where the scripture was proclaimed, including the Acclamation. It was, indeed, awkward and feels a bit inappropriate to me.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    It is inappropriate. The girm specifies that the ambo should only be used for certain purposes, and singing hymns is not one of them.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    The only time I ever chant the gospel acclamation from the ambo is when there's one reading and I was already there for the psalm, where the acclamations directly follows the psalm. Otherwise, there's no reason to do it there.
    Thanked by 2jpal canadash
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    And yet there are circumstances.

    I sing the gospel acclamation from the ambo because the small church has a small sanctuary with no other lectern from which to sing the acclamation.
    Thanked by 2Andrew Motyka Ben
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    In the back of the church in the choir loft with the organist and other singers if any. That's how we do it for the OF.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    I think all of us work with the building that we have. GIRM can not, and never intended to, cover every possible circumstance.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    The only time I ever chant the gospel acclamation from the ambo is when there's one reading and I was already there for the psalm, where the acclamations directly follows the psalm. Otherwise, there's no reason to do it there.


    This is what I do for weekday Mass, but I sing the Alleluia, chant the verse, then leave.
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    Cantor sings Responsorial Psalm from ambo and returns to choir loft to sing Gospel Acclamation verse.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    On a related topic: I know most of us can't stand seeing a cantor gesturing to "cue" the congregation to sing. Personally, I don't give any gestural cue at all, aside from maybe just looking at them.

    Recently, though, a parishioner complained to me about this, explaining that it was "customary" to offer a gestural cue (say, with an outstretched hand).

    I figure just the natural cadence of the music, and maybe a look from me like I said, is more than enough of a cue. But am I "supposed" to do more?

    I use AOZ's psalm settings almost exclusively, by the way.
    Thanked by 1Jani
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    If accompanied and registered played well, or unaccompanied and sung clearly, I've never had a problem with this. Put a slight ritardando at the end of the verse. I wouldn't do anything more than that.

    On accompanied stuff, pedal pick-up notes can be great for cueing an entrance.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    a parishioner complained to me about this, explaining that it was "customary" to offer a gestural cue


    On the other hand,
    My brother, working at a small parish in Minnesota (while a student at St. John's) was told very firmly that "one hand will be enough. This parish is too small for two handed gestures."

    People complain about the weirdest things.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    That totally sounds like something you'd hear at PTB. The commentors over there overthink stuff waaaaaaay too much about how they make up the the smallest things.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Recently, though, a parishioner complained to me about this, explaining that it was "customary" to offer a gestural cue (say, with an outstretched hand).


    When I took my job in 2001, it took a little while to move the cantor back to the loft. I had a similar objection from a parishioner. I said, "I was trying to see if you were paying attention." No further objections.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • SamuelDorlaque
    Posts: 318
    Our cantors sing from the loft. The only exception is at our 10:00 AM Missa Cantata. Two
    cantors (vested) go to the ambo. One sings the First Reading, both intone the Gradual, which is answered by the choir. They sing the beginning of the verse, answered by the choir.
    The second cantor then sings the Second Reading. After "Verbum Domini: Deo gratias," they
    reverence the altar and return to the choir. The Gentlemen of the choir intone the incipit of
    the Alleluia, repeated by full choir. The tenors & basses (usually) begin the verse, answered
    by the sopranos & altos. All repeat the Alleluia & jubilus. By the repetition of the Alleluia, the
    cantors have returned from the ambo. (We only do this when the Pastor or Deacon sings the Gospel.)
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Samuel, that sounds like a truly lovely and worthy Missa Cantata.
    Wonderful.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    The only time I have ever had to sing anything othwr than rhe psalm or gradual from the ambo was when thw cantor's mic failed shortly before mass and on feast days when there was no second reading. Other I have always sung these from the usual cantor's position which is eother in the choir loft or near to the organ.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    Where I work, there is a pulpit from which the readings are given. On the other side of the sanctuary is the organ. So I lead the Psalm and sing the Alleluia versicle from the organ-side, rather than traipse about in the sanctuary. The congregation has become very good at responding with a minimal hand-gesture from me, and that's only given once, if at all.

    With that said, the arrangement is horrible. A rear-loft (or at least rear-placement) would be ideal. Our congregation is fully capable of figuring out when to sing and what to sing without the Great Swoop or Resurrection movements.

    YMMV

    Thanked by 1Ben
  • Bassorous
    Posts: 24
    Our church has no choir loft. It was seemingly planned without music in mind. Consequently, the organ and the choir are presently located, from the perspective of one facing the altar, in the left transept. The ambo is also to the left of the altar. Additionally, we have placed a music stand about five feet to the left of the ambo. A few feet to the left of and behind the music stand a chair has been placed against the sanctuary wall.

    When it is time for the psalm, the cantor leaves the choir area and makes the short trip to the ambo. After the psalm, the cantor sits on the chair mentioned above during the second reading. The cantor then sings the gospel acclamation from the music stand, remains there while the gospel is read, and returns to the choir area after the gospel.

    This arrangement appears to follow all the rules and avoids a traffic jam in the area of the altar. Also, because the organist and cantor are fairly close to one another, coordination between the two is rarely a problem.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    A change in organ registration should be all that is necessary to indicate that it is time for the congregation to sing the response.
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    I agree with Hartley.....although I don't have an organ and play on a keyboard with organ settings, I generally give a pregnant pause after the verse which signals time for the response.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Cantors sing from the choir (on the very far left side of the church). Some of our more experienced cantors go to the ambo for the Psalm, many stay at the choir for it.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    As an ordinary PIP, I dislike being "stage-managed": if I have to be constantly told what to do and when to do it, even though I'm a regular in a parish, the concept of of needing to explain the rites has been left outside in the dustbin. No priest should, therefore, ask us to extend our hands in blessing, and no cantor should wave at us for the purpose of telling us when to enter. If a competent organist can't illustrate when it's time, he's not competent, and if a cantor misunderstands his liturgical role to the point that he thinks he's at the big top, he shouldn't be serving as a cantor in the first place.



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