Ohhh, interesting one. I'd like to see where this goes.

That was me. Actually, I edited that post not long after, because in hindsight I don't think I stand by it.

That said, there is a discussion to be had over natural vs. artificial sound.

I'm very quick with my copying and pasting skills, Motyka.

I'd rather hear a real piano.

Though technically not, this question rings of a false syllogism.
Though the physical nature of an acoustic (analog) piano produces sound A, and those of a pipe organ sound B (and both can be expertly digitalized,) the real question is the technical artistry necessary to accompany different musical requirements of the genres being sung. There was a long period wherein my expertly gifted organist had no organ to accompany the singing of hymns. Did we use hymn accompaniments strictly off the page during that period, heck NO. His masterful improvisatory skills enabled he and I to decide how to augment the score by arpeggiations, doubling of octaves, etc. so that the motion of the strophic phrase did not impart a feeling of stagnation.
Did we therefore not want a three manual Rodgers with modeling when we had the funds to install one with primary and anitiphonal speaker installations? Heck NO. But we haven't accompanied much since on the grand piano, unless the genre demands it.
Experientially, the "folks" as Bill O'Reilly would dub them would be hard pressed to discern the auditory and spacial differences and ambients between top notch digital instruments and speakers. So, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one .....

melo:
I assume that the question assumes the best case scenario: excellent musicians and good (digital or acoustic) instruments.

I'd rather have a good piano than a brokedown Lowrey. I'd rather have a good guitar player than a squealing Hammond. I'd rather have a hammer dulcimer played by an expert than a Real Pipe Organ played poorly by a crummy amateur with no sense.

But that wasn't really the crux of the question.
Although- I think it should be noted that some people would STILL rather have the toaster organ electric thing with pedals.

As for me, my thinking goes something like
Big Real Pipe Organ > Small Real Pipe Organ > Very Good Digital Organ > Very Good Real Piano > Decent Digital Organ > Decent Piano > Guitar > Hammer Dulcimer > Xylophone > Accordian > Hamonica > Digital Piano > Broke-down Hammond

Unfortunately, the air of superiority about this issue does not seem very Christian...though it may be Catholic.

Francis has posted my views with stunning clarity.

Experientially, the "folks" as Bill O'Reilly would dub them would be hard pressed to discern the auditory and spacial differences and ambients between top notch digital instruments and speakers. So, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one .....

Melofluent,

While the attitude you portray here comically justifies fornication and adultery, it misses the larger point that the only "folks" whose opinion really matters -- i.e., the real audience -- are described in the famous lyric, "The three men I admire the most: the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost".

Seriously?
Don't we have things to do anymore?
But I must admit I need a chaser of sanctimonious after imbibing in simulacrum, as long as there is a pinch of bitters thrown in.
cgz, where's your mind at; I was refering to the reality of what instruments one is saddled with upon accepting the whole enchilada of a parish music program? You speak for yourself, please, and leave your libidinous projections of others' intents inside your cerebrial cortex, thanks.

No, of course not.
However, you did yourself no favor by purposefully obscuring "your point" with the implied personal insult that went well beyond propriety for discussion comical or not, between two Christians. Done, don't wish to perpetuate this.

Melofluent,

The only "audience" that matters is the one you have with the Holy Trinity.

I work at two places. I am the music director at my parish where I play the synthesized organ (keyboard) and music teacher at another Catholic school where I direct the choir and play school masses on a Steinway grand. I'd rather play the synthesized organ. Yes, the sound is not the same as a true organ, but with the proper settings and playing around with the music (i.e., melody only with right hand, all chords an octave lower simulating organ pedals on the left hand) does work.

The piano just cannot justify the playing of traditional Catholic hymnody.

What we really need is a good ukulele mass. ;-)

God forbid anyone would actually sight sing anymore either. None of my cantors have even heard of it.

If your choir can understand basic solfege, sightsinging should be easy enough. I sometimes have my choir figure out the intervals prior to singing, right them down and then go from there. So far, it's working.

Thanks for what? Yes, Jesus and Mary never heard a piano or a digital organ. But they never heard a Gregorian chant, a polyphonic motet, or a pipe organ either. (At most, the synagogue in Capernaum may have had a tiny portatif.)

While I agree with the stipulated preference of instruments above, I'm always a bit wary when anyone presumes to speak for Jesus and Mary's preferences.

Actually, Jesus played bagpipes. Now you know how he drove out the demons. ;-)

Thanks for what? Yes, Jesus and Mary never heard a piano or a digital organ. But they never heard a Gregorian chant, a polyphonic motet, or a pipe organ either. (At most, the synagogue in Capernaum may have had a tiny portatif.)

Good Morning Fr. Krisman,

Thank you for the history lesson. It happened to be a subject I majored in and enjoyed very much, and I appreciate the gentle reminder that Jesus and Mary most likely never heard a pipe organ in their time.

Anyone who has spent any good amount of time on this forum would recognize the underlying passion towards sacred music that francis and so many others advocate. It is a reform of the misunderstood reform. Which is why in the quote, I placed in bold, spare us from the guitars and piano. Grant it, there may be some talented musicians that can very tastefully execute those instruments in the sacred mass, there is a good majority that do not. I can't imagine that anyone would take it very literal and serious that Jesus and Mary preferred this and that, or that francis speaks for them. The real crux of this problem wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the many disingenuous priests who are determined to undermine very disobediently the documents of the church regarding sacred music. While there are many very good priests, dedicated, and geniune that follow the documents regarding music, a good majority do not. It is clear in the documents that chant and the "pipe organ" are to be given pride of place, yet in many parishes it takes a back seat if even a seat at all. Perhaps if good priests like yourself would step up and work to advocate for sacred music, and a return to reverence in the church, we wouldn't be on here discussing inappropriate music and instruments, and be discussing how wonderful it is to attend a sacred Mass.

Peace in Christ!
CB

As for me, my thinking goes something like
Big Real Pipe Organ > Small Real Pipe Organ > Very Good Digital Organ > Very Good Real Piano > Decent Digital Organ > Decent Piano > Guitar > Hammer Dulcimer > Xylophone > Accordian > Hamonica > Digital Piano > Broke-down Hammond

None of this has anything to do with music for liturgical purposes. The quality of liturgical music, which is we are all about, is due to just one person, the musician.

There is no actual need for any instrument other than the human voice, the only instrument which was created by God.

Liturgical music can be enhanced by instruments, but over history has proven that it best be served by organ.

We are not musicians of Jesus' time, but are people who recognize that there was a golden era of liturgy that was lost but now, once again, has been found.

Yes, there people who can play piano and make it "work" within liturgy, but playing almost any instrument other than organ at liturgy is like milking an angry cow with one hand tied behind your back, the other hand being very cold - it's possible, but it is so much easier to not have to work against the instrument to make it fit....



The synagogue in Capernaum actually had a tiny Hammond spinet organ, sent there through future time travel by an organist who wanted rid of it. It graced the synagogue only because there was no electricity. There was a note attached, which being in English, they could not read, but it mentioned something about it being a gift from the future by some guy named Francis who lived in a very cold place.

At the parish I grew up in Jesús played a 12-string guitar.

Scripture only allows for 10 strings.

I've seen on some organ literature a special note for "Hammond registration."
The WEIRD thing is that none of them specify "off."

I agree in principle with Fr. Krisman.

On the other hand, since Jesus and Mary have a continuing life apart from their earthly historical existence, one could argue that they are familiar with the musical styles that came after them, and that they even have a preference.

In Randy Newman's Faust, the thing that really sets off the Devil about his situation is that in the years since his expulsion, Heaven has gotten golf, roller coasters, and Hawaiian music - none of which are available in Hell (where they also don't serve breakfast, BTW).

But they do have accordions and Hammonds in Hell. ;-)

Careful now! don't want to border on anachronisms. Apparently only certain people here are allowed to have opinions and use anachronisms, or even joke for that matter.