Emotional problem
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I am having a problem. I am addicted to this forum.

    Anyone else have this problem???
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Well, I am sitting here in the shop at the Morgan Horse farm overlooking the stallion pastures where I work as a part-time driving horse trainer and webmaster for the three businesses on the farm and I can look across at the Smoky Mountains...and I am listening to Chant samples from a new book I got and logging on in spite of all that....

    So yes, My Name is Noel, and I'm a Chant Fanatic....
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    Given the fact that anytime I'm within arm's reach of a computer I log onto the forum to see if anything new's been posted, I guess I qualify.
  • Ioannes Andreades
    Posts: 310
    I don't have a problem.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    If a good tool is to used efficiently and effectively, it must be kept sharp, and the user in practice.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    And the problem is? :-) My only addictions are oolong tea and dark chocolate. But I do look forward to reading the latest posts on the forum each day. I usually learn something each time.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    I need to practice the harp. Right now.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    And me the cello. What are we doing logging on? It IS an obsession.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    Well, let's see. I've got about 30 feeds in my RSS reader, and this is the only one that I make sure I read every day.

    Of course, it's the only one which has useful and interesting content every day. Maybe that has something to do with it.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Through THIS forum I obtained my present full time position as DoM! I am totally dependant and eternally grateful!
  • pipesnposaune
    Posts: 113
    I read the forum WHILE practicing trombone! ;)
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    I'm in the middle of Dvorak 8 and checking the forum... sad. Actually the trombones don't play again until the 4th movement. I'll check on them in a few minutes.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    And here I am checking the forum for new posts again. I shouldn't be doing this. People my age need their rest. ;-)
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Why do I do this? Why do I check every few minutes?
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Jeff O - Because somebody needs to balance the server load for he rest of us who check on your off minutes!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    For some reason, watching Palin whoop the geezer in the debate somehow made me want to drop in here...

    Just kidding of course! I'm quite the geezer myself at 23! ;)
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    All joking aside, I'm constantly refreshing this waiting for some interesting new perspective, and not a day goes by where someone doesn't make me think or reconsider something!
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Ok, so at schola tonight we were talking about the Salicus and the following sentence was uttered that made us all realize that we are crazy:

    "An ictus never appears on a podatus, so if a podatus has under it what looks like an ictus, it is really a vertical episema, which means that the neume is a salicus."

    Chantspeak!
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    That is totally correct, Jeffrey --- and I can add that in the Preface to one of the editions of the Liber Usualis, Solesmes admits that they would have much preferred to write a horizontal episema, but they could not "because of the difficulty in writing this" (remember that they were not allowed to alter the Vatican edition)

    What is truly confusing is that 90% of the time, what Solesmes calls a "salicus" is NOT a salicus according to the Vatican edition. There is a tiny "space" that makes a true salicus, according to the Vatican edition. The only really clear explanation of this is in Joseph Gogniat's book, and when one reads it, the jaw drops --- it is quite something --- no wonder Gogniat was exasperated that nobody understood this fact! The Vatican edition has very few salicus, but the Solesmes editions have literally thousands. It would be akin to me calling any type of feline a "bobcat" --- while the Vatican edition has a very specific definition of a "bobcat"

    By the way, I was amazed to relearn that Dom Mocquereau had a different performance style than Dom Pothier from the very beginning (Combe, The Restoration of Gregorian Chant, page 102), and also that Dom Mocquereau was allowed to write ("adapt") the Propers for St. John Bosco's feast --- Dom Moc had a great devotion to Don Bosco
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    OK, Jeff. Fair enough. That explains why so few of the neumes in NOH are marked with the 2nd slur to make it a salicus. But, as I'm singing through each of these propers, with the NOH, I'm already sensing which neumes really 'want' to be treated as a salicus. When I then go to the GR to check, I find that my feelings are correct. Am I sensing something false in the current use of the salicus, or is it something that maybe the VE didn't quite get right? And what exactly is the difference if I chant it one way rather than the other?
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    The emphasis in the salicus is on the second note. If one takes the neo-Solesmes, one will find thousands of salicus. if one takes the Vaticana way, one will find very few.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    Yes. I'm just saying that, whatever the musicological reason to the neo-Solesmes, it makes perfect sense to my ear - to the extent that the Vaticana feels just that tiny bit unsatisfying.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I agree....but could it be that I learned it that way, so it sounds right? ;-)
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    That's what I think also. Luckily (so far) I haven't had any chant "expert" show up at any of my Masses to chide me for using the wrong rhythm!
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Steve - Most of us are praying for just such an "expert" to show up! We can hand them the baton and modestly take our place as the one and only bass and we solfage up and down the square.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    Yes. I did very much enjoy the sessions with Scott Turkington at Colloquium 2006. I did teach me a lot about chant. It's my own addition of organ accompaniment that I love even more.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    Jeff, is there an online source that explains the notation of the salicus versus the non-salicus in the Vatican edition? I know it's there somewhere in the beginning of my Graduale Simplex, but my Latin isn't that good. CanticaNova offers a translation of this, but I wonder if there's something posted, perhaps linked from this site, that I haven't discovered yet.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    The only place I know that really explains that is the Gogniat book

    Best,

    JMO
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    And for those who would like a guide to the trendy salicus, it's on the http://www.musicasacra.com/ under TEACHING AIDS, choose Guide to Neumes....

    Yes, I had to look myself.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    I've decided not to lose sleep over the salicus. Instead, I shall think about the role of the liquescent neume in the developing economy of the Merovingian empire. And I'll also stop checking this Forum all the time.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    mjballou, why are you stopping checking? I check more with each passing day............
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    mj... i was just checking to see when you stop stop checking...
  • Ioannes Andreades
    Posts: 310
    The fact that my baby woke me up at 4:30 must mean that God wants me to check the forum.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    I checked. I couldn't help myself...
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    MJ, did you see my post about the American Gradual. Why is there no hoopla about this? Insufficient expressions of astonishment!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    It's a TREMENDOUS offer...having spent $99 plus shipping to purchase my copy, I am thrilled that anyone may now have it.

    EVEN IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO SING IN ENGLISH....it is a great training tool....have your schola sing it in English while learning, then move to the Latin...their fuller understanding of the text will influence their singing.

    Many, many thanks of Bruce Ford and Jeffrey with-a-bowtie Tucker.
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