I know of at least one forum member here who has a good deal of organ-building and organ-installation experience, and at least one other who (as MD) has overseen the fundraising and acquisition for a new pipe organ. There may be others- so you've come to the right place.

Definitely check out the Organ Clearing House. They take in old instruments and sell them to new homes.

http://www.organclearinghouse.net/

Realize that you will need to find a builder to help you install said instrument into the church. Find a builder in your area that does rebuilds.

Raising money can be done in a number of ways. Benefit concerts, sponsoring a pipe or rank of pipes, capital fund drives, etc.

Good luck.

Blitz,

Since you're in Philadelphia, I would strongly recommend Patrick Murphy and Assoc. (www.pjmorgans.com) as someone to contact. They can give you some options. They do fabulous work (we've signed with them to restore/renovate our Casavant chapel organ) and are very pleasant to deal with. They do it all-restoration, rebuilding, relocating, and new instruments.

I didnt know that. Ty

Can you explain how that happens? Do they have a markedly limited lifespan?

I think that what PGA is getting at, is that in 30 years with a digital, you have 30-year-old electronics. It may be repairable, if parts are still available. A pipe instrument can still be fixed in 100 years.

side rant on digital organs....

The price of digital organs is insane, and clearly controlled by a loosely organized cabal. Keyboards aren't that expensive. Computer hardware isn't that expensive. Speakers aren't that expensive. Furniture isn't that expensive.

For goodness sakes- a digital organ IS JUST A SYNTHESIZER! That's all it is. It has cooler twiddly knobs and extra buttons for foot-pushing. But it's a synth. It just happens to be shaped like like the console of an organ.

I do not understand why someone (Noel?) hasn't standardized an IKEA-style, hauptwerk-powered rig that can be manufactured easily and sold for 10K or less. There is no actual, physical reason it couldn't be done for that price or less and be as good as any other digital organ.

Kickstarter?

Thank you everyone who has replied so far. More than a week ago, I contacted online Pat Murphy and OCH. While Pat was very prompt in his reply to me, I have yet to hear back from OCH. I have't contacted Allen organs yet because we were trying to avoid digital for the very reason that has been mentioned. I have a lot of experience with analog & digital synths as well as other electronic. However, I might contact them about their hybrid organs since we're essentially building this system from the ground up again and not limited to any existing hardware.

@Adam Wood, I will look into a kickstarter campaign, but am not sure we would qualify based on its rules.

I don't mean to sound like a naysayer but what about maintainence costs of pipe vs digital. Those must be taken into account when comparing the total, investment by a parish. Admittedly, I do not know what the going rate is for the average pipe organ tuning, as I am not in charge of an actual pipe organ (though I am privileged to be able to play one on a regular basis). If you assume that the organ should be tuned twice per year (doesnt happen always I know), that's two hundred tunings over the life of a one hundred year instrument. That would have to be added to the cost of the organ if a 100 year life span is assumed. If you assume that a digital is around 100,000 for a new installation and would last 25-30 years, you can safely say that you'd purchase 4 in the same span as 1 pipe organ, but with no built-in maintenance costs such as tuning. You are looking at 400,000 in that case, over 100 years. With the pipe organ, you would start with the 150K and add in predicted maintenance costs over the same time span. They might add up to about the same number.

And all the inmates come out to play...there is no reason for any church to not consider, rationally, digital, digital and pipe, pipe electro-pneumatic action, pipe electric action or pipe tracker organs when making a decision of what will meet both the musical needs and the financial possibilities.

Many, if not most, pipe organs are funded by one person today. Having someone with the strength of belief that the church should have a pipe organ AND the same person having the financial resources can make it possible.

Without that person, there is a huge seesaw movement when one person (you?) wants a pipe organ but expects some other guy (the some other guy did it defense) to pay for it. In fact, a survey of the Cleveland, Ohio AGO members at one time determined that over the preceding 10 years every organist who insisted on the purchase of a pipe organ left the church either prior to or within 2 years of the installation of the organ. Every one.

It is easier to hire a new organist than to put up with one who feels he is called by God to make the church install a pipe organ so that he can play it.

(it is interesting, that it is rare for a woman to take such a stand. Women may be, indeed, smarter than men.)

If you want a new organ, carefully study and present all the alternatives fairly. Ignore organ salespeople - both pipe and digital - who talk badly of others and their instruments. In fact, don't ignore, instead run fast the other direction.

The Organ Clearing House is the first place to go for a used pipe organ. The reason that the pictures don't change is that very few churches can afford to buy and install a pipe organ - a used one costs about 80% of the cost of a new one. Many people organ builders will try to keep you from talking to OCH - not because they charge a fee, but because they also will renovate and install these organs - work that pipe organ builders want to do for you...

To show how crazy this all is, a survey of piporg-l was taken by a small group. To the question of what is the best organ to have to play and the response was overwhelming Aeolian-Skinner. Except for one select group - those who played Aeolian-Skinner organs. They, without exception, named organs by other builders.

We organists are a weird lot. I'm closing my cell door and locking it, going into the back, dark corner where it is safe from all the craziness that erupts in this discussion.

Let's also keep in mind 100 years is a CONSERVATIVE estimate of a pipe organ's life. I currently play an 1879 H&H and, before that, 1890 Hamil.

We have got several subthreads going on.

Digitals

I am always going to favour pipes over speakers but realistically a toaster organ has its uses especially as a temporary measure while you save up for something better on the basis that it is better to have some organ music than none at all. Once there is organ music again then the desire for better will help funding.

Arguing against this is the risk that some PIPs will see that you have a serviceable simulacrum, and may feel that any money that might have been raised for a proper instrument might now be better spent elsewhere.

Certainly I would not think 100k spent on a digital organ would be a sensible investment for interim use. So if you go down this route, don't overspend on the digital but do make sure that what you do get has a decent sound system - better two manuals with multi-channel amps and speakers than four manuals where the sound comes from somewhere near the organists knees. This way you can make decent music but have still have something clearly better to offer in future.

(And whatever you do don't leave organ duties solely to Mr Jones who plays the piano a bit - nothing is quite so likely to produce dissatisfaction with the organ as an instrument of worship as hearing it played not-especially-brilliantly every Sunday).

A new (or used)organ

Used can be very good if the instrument is of decent quality in the first place and still in good enough condition where most of the useful parts still have some life and (very importantly) will fit in the space available. There is little benefit to having a newly installed organ that will need major work in a few years and still less in having a bargain that requires major structural or architectural alterations to the church in order to make it fit.

However there are some complete dogs out there. Early 20th Century octopods or near octopods with painfully slow pneumatic actions have little to commend them no matter how cheaply they may come. These may be especially difficult to advertise as an improvement to the liturgy when put together with Mr Jones's limited organ skills; such a combination might have even a rabid organ enthusiast thinking of the possible merits of guitars and electronic keyboards.

Be realistic about what you can expect for other people's money. While I'd perhaps dispute the 80% mentioned above it's a matter of degree; the whole cost when it is finally installed and ready to be blessed will probably be a significant proportion of the cost of a new bespoke instrument.

Funding

This is your original question and one that has only been partially addressed. Know how much you want to raise and don't forget to allow for inflation - this process will take years unless you get really lucky


Turn yourself into a salesman, not of cars or soap powder or even organs but of ideas. Sell the idea to your everyone, but make sure that your pastor knows and approves even if he does not actively encourage at first - folks can be prickly if they don't feel they have been consulted often enough or early enough. HAVE A VISION AND ARTICULATE THAT VISION CLEARLY - support it with pictures, sound and video.

You have to believe in what you are trying to achieve and sustain that belief over a period years in the face of opposition that can range from mild disinterest to outright hostility - that's not easy.

As noted earlier much of the funding in these sorts of fundraisers can tend come from one source - a bequest or a donation from one wealthy individual or family can make all the difference.

The 10 and 20 dollar donations and proceeds form things like bake sales and fundraising concerts will add up, but not at a rate that will encourage others to dip a little deeper.

If you can get one person or group to help seed things it's much easier to start the little thermometer with a good chunk of change already showing in the bank. If the goal is half a million, starting the thermometer off at $500 will tend to kill interest rather than stimulate- the difference between the hope and the reality is seen as just too much and just too far to go.

Learn about different forms of giving - employer matching on regular weekly or monthly donations can make a huge difference. Don't forget bequests and legacy gifts - I am not suggesting you target the old and frail during fundraising, but it should be something you should be able to discuss with these folks without embarrassment if they come to you.

Maybe the organ should be selected according to the building. If it's an unattractive church that looks like a school gymnasium, we don't want it to last another 100 years anyway, so they could get a cheap organelle. :-)

Don't even worry about it, they probably already have plans to buy the synth, drum set, and guitar/bass amps. Organs and organists need not apply. :)

For rebuilt, older instruments, in addition to contacting Organ Clearing House and Patrick Murphy, also be in touch with Andover Organs (Methuen, Massachusetts) and David Storey (Baltimore, Maryland), who have a number of excellent instruments in storage. They all do excellent restoration and rebuilding work.

I know this is a an off-topic question, but let me ask anyway: When raising funds for a new organ, is there more flexibility at a parish administered by a religious order than one staffed by diocesan priests?

True, Daniel. In my diocese the parish can approve projects up to a certain dollar amount. After that, it has to get approval from, and be financed by the diocese. The parish repays the diocese instead of a commercial lender.

Beautiful instrument.

If getting an old pipe organ restored, make sure that there is a good trumpet stop on it somewhere. That will get a work-out for weddings and big occasions such as Easter and Christmas.

You should consider a Hauptwerk virtual organ. I recently visited Trinity Episcopal in Red Bank, NJ, which just installed an incredible sounding HW system for about $50k, including 11 organ sample sets. They used some of their old speaker system and the console, and installed a custom computer and touch screen.

Hauptwerk is free.
They used a console and speakers they already owned.
A computer fast enough to run HW can be build for a grand or bought for two.

What did they spend $50K on?

Are the Organ samples THAT expensive?

The advanced edition of HW software is about $600. I have a HW system at home, and if you want to get any kind of decent sample sets, you're going to need 16GB or better yet 24GB of RAM memory in a computer. Several thousand dollars for a Dell computer with that capability. More for a MAC or custom built. Same would be true for a church installation.

Certainly HW is not a "toy," as much as Walker Technical is not a toy. It is a serious system which, in my view, certainly is superior to a small-midsize pipe organ and rivals larger ones for a FRACTION of the cost. Just go to their website www.hauptwerk.com and hear some of the sample sets. Better yet, go to Red Bank. (Walker is another alternative, and local, but probably more than a decent HW installation).

Decent sample sets range from about 500 to over $1000 each. Honestly, you'd need 1 or 2 for a church application--11 is a luxury and I wasn't suggesting you need that many. But, even if you did, it would be probably 8K for all 11.

A significant cost would be the console and sound system, which I agree, one could accomplish for far less than $50K. But nonetheless, speakers and amplification are an expense. At Trinity, they had a console and a pre-existing sound system. Additional speakers and Def Tech subwoofers were installed.

The point is that the HW sound quality is outstanding and can be accomplished at a fraction of the cost of a real pipe organ and is far superior to the sound of a Rodgers or Allen for the same cost. If you want a pipe organ, consider the reasons why and consider the cost. Yes, a $500K pipe organ will probably sound better than HW or Walker. Does the parish have $500K? If you have $30K or $50K to spend, I wouldn't even consider an Allen or Rodgers or a small, second-hand pipe organ that some organ builder would have to install and rebuild. I've experienced a number of HW projects. It's cutting edge and really quite something to hear and play.

I think hw is here to stay and is a real cost effective alternative to pipe organs. Could be done for a lot less than 50k. If the organist can't deal with it, I'd say it's because he's a bit of a dinosaur. I know here in Philly noted organists like Michael Stairs and Peter Conti have systems and love it. If you can't adapt to new technology you're left behind. It's like someone afraid to use email or text messaging. Yes computers will have to be upgraded or changed but there are certainly ongoing expenses with pipe organs and commercial digital organs. I know walker systems (which are essentially the same) that have been in place for years. As for voicing there are many dry samples that would work in a particular church.
My view.

It's a good thing to be able to call that dedicated organ technician, and let him worry about fixing problems. My experience with electronics is that they fail more often than well-designed pipe instruments. A pipe instrument can be repaired in 50 years, while electronic parts can disappear from the market and no longer be available when needed.

Rather, electronic organs are akin to replacing the choir with synthesized electronic voices capable of being programmed to sing real words and sound like the human voice. They just aren't voices at all no matter how much you say they are!

So true, so true...the cost of candles at your church to provide light to the congregation must be absolutely mind-boggling....unless you are using torches.

Have you found an order of nuns to live there and weekly stomp the grapes to make the wine for Mass after they have harvested the wheat to bake the hosts?

Welcome to the Amish Church. We rely on no stinkin' modern devices, instead we go without...

No one has suggested that synthesized human voices be singing. Priests have made the decision not to buy pipe organs not me or you...take up your fight with them. But an attitude of all or nothing would get them interested in synthesized voice choirs and cantors real fast.

Do you think people in prior centuries get so crazy about having to play harmoniums? Or is this a modern, "we're entitled" thing, I wonder.


Are we really about making music for the Mass when we refuse to play anything but a "real organ"? I'd say this creates a real dividing line that does not belong in this group.

If it must be an electronic instrument, then so it must be. But let's not celebrate it. Let's understand it for what it is, namely, a defeat and "the best we could do with what little money we had."

But seriously, don't you find it hard not to turn on the car radio and listen to choral music and Bob Conrad on WCLV - since that's a "defeat and "the best we could do with what little money we had."

Or do you carry your vocal ensemble in the back seat for entertainment on long drives?

I think you're wrong on this one, FNJ. I don't think that it has to be a pipe-organ-or-nothing mentality, but a synthesized sound can never be as optimal as a live one. Compromise might be necessary because of budget, space, acoustics, etc., but it shouldn't be preferred.