I re-read the GIRM this morning and I can't find reference to the Deacon chanting the Kyrie. It says cantor/choir.

I don't have a copy of the Missal, but I plan to look at Father's copy when I go in tomorrow.

http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf

See pp 5-6

The Priest, or a Deacon or another minister, then says the following or other
invocations* with Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy):

Then, when spelling out "the following" it just says "the priest."

On the next page, where the Kyrie is listed separately (which is clearly to be done, "unless they have just occurred in a formula of the Penitential Act"), there is no indication of who is to give the invocation and who the response.

Based on the principle of "common sense" I should think it would be "the priest, the deacon, or another minister." So I would then further think that only if your Cantors are considered "ministers" (and are properly educated, commissioned, and attired [and, I am sad to say, gendered] ) would it be appropriate for them to give the invocation.

However, based on the principle of "making stuff up," I would think it should be appropriate to have pretty much anyone you want do it.

"The acclamations Kyrie, eleison can be distributed among two or three cantors or choirs, if appropriate.

I find statements like this maddening.
WHAT MAKES IT APPROPRIATE?

Not to mention that the GR and the RM probably have wholly different praxis points of view.

Riffing on recent rubrical questions in another thread, wherein Fr. Ron pointed out that, when there is ambiguity, the widest possible interpretation is allowed, and I maintained that "allowed" and "prudent" are not really the same thing, I would think the "answer" would be something like: It is best if the Deacon or Priest can chant it. But it is not wrong if someone else does so.

Which brings up a whole side issue: why are so many people concerned with how they can skate in on the minimum? Why have we let modern utilitarianism guide our decision-making? What happened to the notion of an ascent of virtues, of gradus ad parnassum?

ok...

A. I try very hard to avoid the policy of making stuff up, as it causes too much trouble where I am.

B. If it is in fact the province of the Deacon or even an allowable option for him to intone the Kyrie, I would like to it that way. Both of our deacons have wonderful singing voices and the more men we can get publicly singing in the Mass, the more we counter the weird notion prevalent in this part of the United States that singing is a girl thing.

C. I find ambiguous statements to be maddening as well...IMO it helps those who want to find justification for the liturgical silliness we have all encountered at one point or another.

D. The deacon who made this statement to me originally is also trained in the Maronite rite...is it possible that it's the Maronite rite that has this rubric spelled out explicitly?

smvanroode, actually my question was about option A. At our church it has been practice since long before I arrived to pray the confiteor and then sing the Kyrie, with a cantor (all of our cantors are female) intoning it.

If that's not licit or appropriate, I will work very hard to change it. I'm just trying to find the documentation to back up changing it before I go tilting at that particular dragon.

K, I deleted this because it was rather off-topic in regards to the OP.

HI, Wendi; I hope you don't mind me changing the title of this thread to make it more specific (i.e., useful to readers).

Wendi, for options A and B it's not prescribed in the rubrics that the deacon intones the Kyrie, and the practise is therefore not intended. Cantors or a choir should intone the Kyrie with all responding.

MatthewJ, I do the same.

I honestly don't have issue with it one way or the other. I'm just trying to find out if what our deacon told me is accurate, and if it is where the rubrics say that.

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-2.cfm

The Kyrie, Eleison

52. After the Penitential Act, the Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy), is always begun, unless it has already been part of the Penitential Act. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is usually executed by everyone, that is to say, with the people and the choir or cantor taking part in it.

Each acclamation is usually pronounced twice, though it is not to be excluded that it be repeated several times, by reason of the character of the various languages, as well as of the artistry of the music or of other circumstances. When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Penitential Act, a “trope” precedes each acclamation. (i.e. Third form of the Penitential Act)



http://nccbuscc.org/liturgy/SingToTheLord.pdf
23. In accord with their abilities, deacons should be prepared to sing those parts of the Liturgy that belong to them. Deacons should receive training in singing the dialogues between deacon and people, such as those at the Gospel and at the dismissal. They should also learn to sing various invitations in the rites, the Exsultet, the third form of the Act of Penitence, and the Prayer of the Faithful. If they are capable, deacons should be trained in the practice of chanting the Gospel on more solemn occasions. Programs of diaconal preparation should include major and compulsory courses in the chant and song of the Liturgy.



For the Penitential Act, the Order of Mass states:

FIRST FORM (FORM A):
4. Then follows the Penitential Act, to which the Priest invites the faithful, saying:
The First Form has the Confiteor.


SECOND FORM (FORM B):
5. The Priest invites the faithful to make the Penitential Act:
That dialogue is found here.


THIRD FORM (FORM C):
6. The Priest invites the faithful to make the Penitential Act:
Brethren (brothers and sisters), let us acknowledge our sins, and so prepare ourselves to celebrate the sacred mysteries.
A brief pause for silence follows.

The Priest, or a Deacon, or another minister, then sings the following or other invocations with Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy):
The Third Form is also found here.


It is important to note that the Deacon may sing the trope in the Third Form (Form C) with the Kyrie following.


When the First Form or Second Form of the Penitential Act is chosen, then:
7. The Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy) invocations follow, unless they have just occurred in a formula of the Penitential Act.
cf. GIRM 52, above, and http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=Kyrie.pdf


In November 2011, the USCCB provided clarification about the chanting of the tropes in the Third Form (Form C) of the Penitential Act:
http://www.usccb.org/about/divine-worship/newsletter/upload/newsletter-2011-07.pdf
The introductory rubric for Form C states, ―The Priest, or a Deacon or another minister, then says the following or other invocations with Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy)." The chanting or recitation of the Kyrie tropes is not limited to the Priest or the Deacon. Another minister – for example, a cantor – may chant the tropes to enhance the liturgy. Secondly, the three tropes provided in the Order of Mass, as well as the other sets provided in Appendix VI of the Missal, are only given as samples. The Priest Celebrant or other minister is encouraged to create tropes which could be inspired by the liturgical observance or the scriptures of the day or the particular needs of the local Church.

Apart from Dr Ed. Schaefer, I can't think of ANY deacon I know who could cope with intoning this:

For the deacons I know, yes; RECTO TONO would be difficult. The reason being that in their training they are taught less about liturgy (which should be their principal function) than anything else, and sung liturgy, I'm sure, is never even thought of. They have been trained mainly in administration and being PC.

Yeah, that's a regrettable rubric. Hey, does it mean that we cantors ("other minister") are encouraged to make up tropes?
"You are the morning star who rise in the east: Lord, have mercy."
"Your presence calls us to bend the knee: Christ, have mercy."
...

Is KYRIE MAGNAE DEUS POTENTIAE really all that difficult?

I think it would depend on the deacon. If you have a deacon with a good singing voice and he is willing to spend the time learning it, and you are willing to spend the time teaching it, then no it's not too difficult. Of course some deacons may have a confidence problem, but I have found that support and encouragement go a LONG way towards eliminating the confidence problem. As usual...YMMV.

When it comes to liturgy, the lack of an explicit prohibition is a spurious argument for justifying practises not described by the rubrics.

I would have to respectfully disagree with you there. Generally speaking, the church in her wisdom and charity tends to allow more than forbid, thus allowing for different cultural norms throughout the planet.

In most areas of faith and morals, the church does NOT adopt the attitude of "that which isn't mandatory is forbidden", therefore it seems odd to adopt that stance only in the case of sacred music. However...as usual...YMMV.

Wendi, the following traffic signs may help to explain my line of thought. Arriving at a T-junction one may place two different signs:



Both signs have the same effect (you turn right), but one is proscriptive and the other prescriptive. Liturgical rubrics work like the blue sign. They tell you what to do, and we are expected to follow that direction.

So, if the rubrics tell us (GIRM 52 and Praenotanda OCM 2) that the Kyrie is to be sung by the people and the choir or cantor, we are expected to perform the Kyrie that prescribed way. Having a deacon intone the Kyrie is like turning left anyway at the T-junction, saying: "But it isn't prohibited!".

Now, having the deacon intoning the Kyrie, though unlawful, is quite harmless. But you can imagine what might happen if people start justifying a liturgical practise with the argument that it isn't explicitly prohibited: "Let's carry a fish kite at the entrance procession", ...

See GIRM 91: "All, therefore, whether ordained ministers or lay Christian faithful, in fulfilling their function or their duty, should carry out solely but totally that which pertains to them." So, if there is a cantor, a deacon shouldn't perform the cantor's functions.