An Odd Liquescent
  • Sunday's Communio "Primum quaerite" has a liquescent clivis on the first syllable of "RE-gnum" that was the cause of some discussion at a recent schola rehearsal I attended. Frequently, the liquescent note serves to help singers distinctly articulate two consecutive consonants, but in this case, according to Roman pronunciation rules, the "gn" combination is really one sound, a nasalized "n." So why is there a liquescent note here? Presumably, the Vatican Edition uses the liquescent clivis because it is present in the ancient manuscripts (both Laon and St. Gall have a liquescent clivis Graduale Triplex p. 325).

    One speculation that came to me is that in 9th c. northern Europe "regnum" was in fact pronounced with a hard "g," as the Germans do to this day, thus producing a double consonant in need of careful articulation by means of a liquescent note. Any ideas?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I would say that it is for pronunciation, to aid in sounding the 'gn' before the 'yoom'. But then again, maybe not?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,516
    Does the same pronunciation hold for Agnus? If so, are there northern manuscripts for the Agnus Dei marked in such a way that would shed light on this question?
    Thanked by 2Salieri CHGiffen
  • I'm not sure about "Agnus"; it's my understanding that the earliest manuscripts containing the "Agnus Dei," and all the other chants of the Ordinary, date from a later time, after neumatic notation had been replaced by the square-note style. Unless there were a proper that contained the word "agnus" . . . ? But a quick search of the Propers for words with the same "gn" combination did turn up "igne" in the Introit "Probasti, Domine," and there, interestingly, we have the same use of the liquescent as in "regnum." But that doesn't bring me any closer to a resolution of the original question.
    Salieri, is the "y" of "yoom" a sound produced subsequent to the "gn" or a component of it?
    BTW, if there is a prize for the nerdiest posting to the Forum, let this thread be given due consideration.
    Thanked by 2Kathy Salieri
  • IIRC, Dom Saulnier asserted that there was no need for the chants of the Ordinary to be notated in the first place, as there were in most cases a handful of them regionally used, and committed to memory by local communities. (Mass VIII is an exception, a much later addition.)

    So while the manuscripts of the ordinaries date from a later time, it would not usually follow that they were composed later.

    The propers represent a much larger body of music, and were notated earlier out of necessity.

    Your speculation about the northern pronunciation of a harder g may be on the right track. Interesting.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • Keep in mind that in later Latin, the combination "gn", at least in less educated circles, was pronounced [ŋn], the first symbol being a dorsal nasal equivalent to the final sound of "sing". Thus regnum would have sounded to us like "rengnum." Positing such a value for late Latin gn explains how Latin "lignum" could have given rise both to Italian "legno" and Romanian "lemn" (remembering inter alia that Latin "factus" develops in Romanian as "faptu", another instance where a Latin dorsal+apical combination becomes a Romanian labial+apical).
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Chris Allen
  • If this is a "nerdy" thread, let me be the first to congratulate you for starting it, as I am new to the world of chant and need a lot of "nerds" to help me through. With regard to pronunciations, I'm also having trouble with my choir differentiating between Germanic and Ecclesiastical Latin. I also dare say, that most Americans are going to have difficulty in pronouncing some of the Latin correctly simply because we all speak conversational English. In any case, please continue with the "nerdiness" because I, for one, need it!
  • As I understand it, the liquescent in question would have allowed (required?) the signing of the n in a more pronounced fashion than without it: Rennn-yoom, instead of singing the vowel on this pitch.

  • cgz, that's how I would observe it, too.
    The Germanic pronunciation idea is interesting, and its worth investigating other ideas, too.

    Still, were I singing this chant next week, I'd prepare it as cgz indicates. (If only I could figure out how to do the IPA characters on my iPhone...)

    I sing in seven languages, mostly Romance languages, and that approach would be based on my experience and intuition. It's doable and sensible. But of course I could be mistaken.

    Fwiw, what I would want if I were leading your schola would be a decision and singing through the whole chant until its comfortable, beautiful, almost memorized. Detailed questions can take precious rehearsal time off-course, so I'd refer discussion to break times and focus on making it beautiful during singing rehearsal. Though I have to say I love it when the singers I direct care enough to get into the details- shows their interest level. :)
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    Perhaps it would be worth it to look at what appears in the Laon and St. Gall notations in the Triplex. My understanding from Fr. Kelly is that if, as has been suggested, this has some Germanic influence, it might appear as a nuance in one of the sources that appear in the Triplex. (Fr. Kelly spoke of how the differences in language, or at least how the differences were heard, could be gleaned by differences in the various neumes.)
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    Liquescents are used inconsistently in the manuscripts (generally as a reminder) and transcribed inconsistently from the manuscripts to the Vatican edition. And they refer to a Latin pronunciation long before it was standardized.

    Although being able to identify liquescents is important in determining the rhythm of the medieval practice, one can obtain a satisfactory performance in the modern 19th century style by ignoring them altogether.
  • "Regnum" was certainly pronounced "reg - num* when I took Latin at school in England several decades ago

    Given that Latin pronunciation in England during the renaissance was so individual that it could be used as a secret language around other Latin users I would not treat this as anything other than a mildly interesting curiosity.
  • Thanks to all who joined this conversation. My question regarding the liquescent clivis on "RE-gnum" in the Communio "Primum quaerite" could of course be approached from at least two perspectives:
    1) an academic-historical perspective: how was this word pronounced in the 8-9th c. and was that particular pronunciation the reason for the liquescent here and in similar words having "gn" between two vowels?
    2) a practical performance perspective: given that our schola follows the pronunciation rules of the Roman liturgy, how will we sing it at Sunday's mass?

    My original posting was really seeking an answer from perspective 1). Thanks to Ioannes Andreades for helpful information.

    As for 2), what we did on Sunday was to sing the clivis on the open syllable "Re-" and to treat the "gn" sound as the opening consonant of the second syllable of the word. That solution of course turns the liquescent second note of the clivis into a normal note but has the advantage that it is easier to sing: the singers sing on the vowel without getting hung up in humming consonants. (In other situations, to be sure, the liquescent would be all but indispensable for a clear articulation of the text.)
  • Just an opinion: There's nothing (academic here), but I never ignore a good liquescent. I think it's marrying the "n" to "reg." Perhaps notated because the monks were typically forgetting this and defaulting to a pronunciation they were more familiar with: reg-num. Look up Grimms Law regarding the pronuciation of "g" and you will find 1000 years of changes, with west German exceptions.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen