Since “Communio” doesn’t have the Gloria Patri …
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    What do you usually do when singing from it?

    1) Leave out the GP altogether.
    2) Have a GP printout handy.
    3) Glue the GP handout to the book’s inside covers and turn to it at the end.
    4) … ?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    4) Sing it from memory because we all have years of experience doing Vespers together; I wish this were true.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen incantu
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    4.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    4. sing from memory...
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    4)
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    Are you talking about having the congregation sing as well or just the schola? At the moment just the schola sings this, and we used the print out initally. Eventually though, we memorized the modes. All things considered it didn't take as long as I thought it would. We've only been chanting since April.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Also, its not as if you're even singing from memory, since the melody is there already. You just have to remember where to move in the text.
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    I always assumed the GP was optional... and that 10+ verses would see you through the rite. But for those who want to add it, here's a copy you can paste in the back of your book.
    _GloriaPatri.pdf
    33K
    Thanked by 2Heath Ignoto
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I always make a point of adding the GP, even if I cut out verses.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Richard, I see that that PDF says "Gloria Patri for the Introit." Do I recall correctly that the GPs for the Communion are a bit different?
  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    Richard is correct about the Gloria Patri being optional. The Gloria Patri is not required, but it is also not forbidden.
    The above applies to the vernacular only and is not making any statement about the GR.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I always make a point of adding the GP, even if I cut out verses.

    Do you make a point of it, or do you just sing it?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    The Ordo Cantus Missae says to treat the Communion like the Introit; and the instructions for the Introit say to omit the doxology if it the piece becomes too protracted.

    I think that means you need to judge in the circumstances how much time is remaining in the entrance procession or in the distribution of Holy Communion and indicate to your singers what they are to do.
    Thanked by 2Aristotle Esguerra CHGiffen
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    The tones, and their Gloria Patri's, are the same for both Introit and Communion verses.
    Thanked by 2Mark M. CHGiffen
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    I'll soon be marketing the Choir Director's Silent Signal System, a collection of card-stock signs with messages such as "Gloria Patri", "Antiphon", "Let's wrap it up", "Keep going", "Back to verse 1", etc. The premium system will include crossing-guard paddles for "Stop/Go" and "Slow/Go".
    paddles.jpg
    200 x 200 - 7K
    Thanked by 5CHGiffen Ally Adam Wood Wendi marajoy
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    I have a little sign that says, "Doxology". I hold it up when we are singing the antiphon or verse and it's time to wrap it up.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    @chonak
    I know you were joking, but that seems like a great idea.

    Most of us use some kind of hand-signal, of course.
    I have, a few times, found out that these (completely obvious and transparent) signals are not as clear as I thought. I have always used a closed fist to mean "least time" and circle-motion with the index finger to mean "keep going."
    Apparently some people make that circling motion with their finger to mean "wrap it up."


    AND HERE'S A NOTE TO ALL YOU NON-DIRECTING ORGANISTS:

    If the Music Director usually doesn't conduct hymns, but just let's you do your thing, and is - right now - looking at you and making any sort of conducting gesture, he or she wants you to speed up. That gesture, in that context, has no other meaning.
    (This has been a Public Service Announcement from the Union of Music Directors Who Hire Out Organ Playing To People More Talented Than Them, But Who Still Feel They Need to Exert Some Influence Over How Congregational Singing Works).

  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    So, remind me please… is the Offertory chant treated any differently, regarding the verses and the Gloria Patri? I know verses are hard to find, and I know that it's sort of a moot point anyway because offertory chants can be pretty long. But that notwithstanding, the would the overall form still ideally be Antiphon-Verse-GP-Antiphon?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Sort of. There's no GP, and the verses, as found in the liturgical books are actually melodies of their own right. Check out the "Offertoriale" (1913, if I recall) on the music book PDF page. It has all the offertory verses and their melodies.

    This arrangement can also be simplified and be sung the same way as the introit and communion, but without the GP, as is done in SEP.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Mark M.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    1935, I see. Very cool… thanks again!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "the Union of Music Directors Who Hire Out Organ Playing To People More Talented Than Them, But Who Still Feel They Need to Exert Some Influence Over How Congregational Singing Works"

    Also known as "fussbudgets".
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    In addition to what Ben Yanke says about the melodies, the texts of the Offertory verses are usually centonizations of the psalm text designed to make sense in conjunction with the respond - in other words, they are composed texts. Verses at the Introit and Communion are taken straight from the psalter. Singing the Offertory verses to a psalm tone is a bit of a mash-up.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Gavin- lies and slander!
    The UMDWHOOPTPMTTTBWSFTNTESIOHCSW's legal team will be contacting you.
    (We recently merged with the Teamsters.)
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Reminds me of the English Majors' thing on A Prairie Home Companion...
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
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