Anyone ever used The Catholic Hymn Book from the London Oratory?
  • Jamie
    Posts: 40
    Hello all,

    I was in Westminster Cathedral, London and Prinknash Abbey, Gloucester last week and I came across "The Catholic Hymn Book". It seemed like a decent book, but I didn't really get a good chance to look through it. I looked it up more online when I got back to Scotland and it seems like a decent book. Can anyone tell me more about it's contents? I saw it has some common hymnody that we hear often. Does it contain any chants like the Veni Creator, Salve Regina or Alma Redemptoris Mater? Does it contain Hymns that were written by Anglicans such as Abide with me or Jesus Christ is Ris'n Today or is it purely form Catholic Hymn Writers?

    Help would be appreciated, considering suggesting it as the new Hymn Book for the Parish. Then we can have a ceremonial burning of "Hymns Old and New"! God bless.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Jamie, check out this thread. It seems to be the same book that you mentioned.

    Here's the publisher's info.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,460
    That publisher desperately needs a new website...
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    While I was looking up The Catholic Hymnal and the Brompton Oratory, I came across this fascinating article about congregational hymn-singing at the Brompton Oratory, entitled The London Oratory & Congregational Singing O tempora o mores!

    The author, who is apparently a Protestant, is holding up the Catholics at Brompton Oratory as the model of congregational singing:

    (The following is taken from Studies in Worship Music (First Series); Chiefly as Regards Congregational Singing (1880), by John S. Curwen, in which the London Oratory is held up by the author as a model of congregational singing, it being labelled a “complete success”. It may be interesting to consider what progress or otherwise has been achieved over the intervening 132 years.

    The piece was written 26 years after the first residence of the Oratorians at Brompton, just at the time that works had begun for the building of the current Oratory church. During this time the organist at the Oratory was Mr William Pitts and services were being conducted in a temporal iron church which was built in front of Oratory House until the opening of the present church in 1884.)

    For many years the Oratory at Brompton has been noted among Roman Catholics for its congregational hymn-singing, and Protestants are but little aware of the extent to which the practice is carried. In this innovation – the singing of English hymns – the Oratory has taken the lead.

    More here.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 834
    One caveat for US musicians regarding British hymnals: very frequently, texts are printed separately from the music, often on facing pages. British singers grow up with this, deal with it well, and don't (in my experience) complain about it. American choirs complain piteously when faced with hymns presented this way--even highly adept professional singers.
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 469
    Help would be appreciated, considering suggesting it as the new Hymn Book for the Parish.

    Unless there's been a new edition, it contains very few (perhaps only one) Latin Mass setting and all its English ones are out of date. I can take a look for your questions this weekend when I'm at Our Saviour.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,460
    -even especially highly adept professional singers.

    Fixed. (You're welcome.)
    Thanked by 2SkirpR Gavin
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,697
    Yes, Page is right about the printing. That being said, it is a VERY FINE hymnal.
  • Jamie
    Posts: 40
    Alright, sounds good, but does anyone know if it has any of the chants I mentioned above in it??
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 469
    Jesus Christ is Ris'n Today or is it purely form Catholic Hymn Writers?

    It has Jesus Christ is Risen Today..

    This index suggests it has all the other music you ask about including "Abide with Me" assuming that is what is being sung to the tune EVENTIDE.

    (Links from here, which suggests it has two Latin Mass settings, not just one.)
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,731
    My copy of "The Catholic Hymn Book" has the following, this is from the Latin section.

    O Salutaris, and Tantum ergo with English translations that can be sung.
    4 Marian Anthems
    Mass VIII, Mass XI, Mass XVIII, Credo III, Mass responses in Latin.
    Adoro te, Attende Domine, Ave Maria, Ave Maris stella, Ave verum, Christus vincit, Jesu dulcis, Lucis creator, Pange Lingua, Panis Angelicus, Rorate Caeli, Te Deum, Te lucis, Ubi Caritas, Veni creator, Veni Sancte spiritus (sequence), vexila regis, Victimae paschali.

    All in modern notation... some editions have an oratory supplement including mine.
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,473
    That is certainly a very interesting quote about the oratory. A friend who was there last Christmas said there was no congregation singing.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,731
    It depend on when you go... If it was one of the main Christmas Masses the full choir would have been singing polyphony most of the time...
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