How to implement binders for choir use??

angelgirl1151

Ok so my choir insists on keeping the system we have and storing their octavos and other loose music in their box. However, I would like them to start using binders to store music which it seems they are opposed to for some reason. I'd like them to see the practical purpose since, before every event, they have to dig out all of their octavos from their own choral box and order them for the liturgy. A binder would eliminate this--I guess they could throw back at me their long term storage concerns (since they pile it up in their boxes any way) and we are right back where we started. Ugh, my head is spinning! There must be an easy way to approach this that I'm missing??

Adam Wood

Choir members get 1" Black 3-ring binders.
You hand out music when you start working on it.
You collect it after it has been performed.
How it is stored when not in choir-members' folders is your business, not theirs.

(Unless you are not the choir director, in which case it is his or her concern, not yours.)

Musicteacher56

I made a big mistake last year in entrusting my choir members with their own music. They kept it in their own folders and were able to take it home, with my hopes of reviewing it. Unfortunately, that resulted in people coming to rehearsal without music claiming their either "forgot" their folder at home, or "lost" the music. Because of this, my choir is no longer trusted with holding on to their own music (I had to re-order music to replace that which was lost). I invested in several three-ring binders and keep all the music in the church (as far as practicing at home I found that wasn't happening anyway).

Adam Wood

You clearly have bigger problems than music organization.

Adam Wood

Do what most Middle-school choirs do.

Choir members get 1" Black 3-ring binders.
You hand out music when you start working on it.
You collect it after it has been performed.
*Choir members binders are kept in labeled slots in a shelf or rack (next to the pencil sharpener).

angelgirl1151

So they aren't allowed to take it home with them or..? We have many people who are chronic complainers and it's making things rather difficult. I almost feel like I must give them their way to retain them to keep the numbers up :(

The system we have is rather flawed in some areas but the original conceived one was pretty good--they keep a box of stuff and pull out what they need when we sing it. That way, the burden is on them rather than the DM to collect, refile, maintain, hand out, etc. each use.

I also think singing out of a binder rather than an octavo just LOOKS better to the assembly...

Adam Wood

My choir members keep their own folders. My first email to the choir after I took over included:
Please purchase, and bring with you, a 1" Black three ring binder. Please note: Not 1/2", not a different color, not a different number of rings. 1" black three-ring binder.

Everybody showed up with one. Everybody manages to bring them and take them home with no problem.

lmassery

I tried handing out music but they would lose it and take 5 minutes to locate it during rehearsal. So now before the beginning of every 'semester' I put all the binders together in alphabetical order and each choir member takes the binder with their assigned number on it. Both sheet music and octavos are hole-punched and put in said binder. Then I collect them at christmas and have them ready again for Epiphany. If throughout the year I add a piece of music, I make sure they put it into their binders alphabetically.

Jeffrey Quick

Binders will only work with some kind of internal order-filing code (like each piece getting a number, printed on all pages of that piece). Here's what happens:
1. Director orders the music in the folder for next Sunday's mass, plus upcoming music to be worked on, That's all that's in there. A lot of work, and this only works if the music never goes home, so director can put it in order.
2. Choir members order their own music for a particular Mass. Music has no intrinsic order, and when you need something old, "I can't find it" and you waste time.

Where I'm at, there was a section for Ordinaries, and one for other music. This system really didn't work. One doesn't want people frantically looking for music during the service; just flip the page and you're there. OTOH, you don't want them doing it during rehearsals either.

SkirpR

I had a variation on this...

Binders and music are supplied by the church, and distributed at the first rehearsal. All music and binders are numbered so that each choir member has a specific number. Binders and music may go home between rehearsal and Sunday, but are turned in on Sunday with the explicit expectation that all music is to be in them, unless given permission otherwise. After Sunday and before rehearsal I remove music that will no longer be needed and add music that will.

Any music I go to remove from a binder that is missing is charged to the singer. (And yes, I bill them - for paid singers, I dock it from their pay.) They don't always pay, soemtimes they just disappear, but the dedicated ones catch on quickly, and most people who've lost music are good about paying for it after a few kind reminders.

(And choir members may maintain the order of music in their binder however they see fit.)

CharlesW

I have used binders for years, and the choir members keep up with their own. What I truly need are "blinders" one on each side for all choir members, so they might, just might, watch me! ;-)

angelgirl1151

These are nice suggestions--any idea on how to 'sell' them diplomatically to a people who complain about everything? Yes, I know sometimes it has to be a dictatorship like every teaching profession but since we deal with volunteers, it has to be done more sensitively..

Adam Wood

Changing music styles from pop/rock to polyphony has to be done sensitively. Instituting a binder policy is an executive decision. Treading like a timid milquetoast over trivial matters undermines your leadership. Just tell them this is what you're doing.

noel jones, aago

angelgirl,

Don't -seriously- give them time to complain. Plan the rehearsal to start on time and have a plan that keeps them occupied every second of rehearsal.

If they try to interrupt to complain - politely ask them to bring it up with you after rehearsal - and get back on track.

The good people in the choir will eventually freeze these people out by their support of you, which you deserve, even if everything they are complaining about is justified!

Do not ask for permission, just do this. It will keep choir rehearsal flowing and....stop the complaining. Ask the members to help each other find the right page instead of stopping the rehearsal - "Where are we at?" Make them grow up. Don't let them control you by interrupting and complaining.

Sometimes they complain because they don't like you. But instead of quitting stay on to terrorize you for the fun of it.

ronkrisman

I thought that, by now, blood sugars would be tanking precipitously low in the Rocky Mountain and Pacific times zones and we were all in for some "binders of..." comments from some of the usual Forum pranksters. But, no. No hay nada.

Well then, how will this breaking news raise your blood sugar? Cañizares is going to Madrid and the CDWDS will be getting a different prefect.

jpal

My choristers each have a box and a binder. I don't care where or how they store their music, as long as it is in front of them when we rehearse and in their (parish-owned) black binder when we sing it for Mass. Most of them have learned to put their music in order for Mass before they come to church on Sunday. Some like to separate propers/hymns from the ordinary; most keep it strictly in order it is sung. It doesn't matter to me as long as they have something that works to get the right thing in front of them at the right time.

I don't give them music until we are actually about to work on it. As soon as Mass is over, I have a table ready in the music room where music is returned immediately. This works well for us.

JulieColl

@ronkrisman

Here's hoping that particular rumor is all smoke and no fire. It's not a little "consternating", to put it mildly, to folks with a traditional bent.

chonak

What you do with binders depends on your choir. You can probably think of your experience with them so far, and figure out how much "organization" to impose on the process yourself. Here are two examples:

In the church where I used to sing, the binders were fairly big and stayed in church, and the businesslike choir director stocked them with pieces for a whole season, occasionally making changes as he revised the schedule. All the binders were arranged consistently, except for an occasional human mistake. Most rehearsals had a few requests for help finding things that were missing, or seemed to be missing; but we didn't spend a lot of time on it.

In the church where I sing now, people take their binders home, and the choir director distributes and collects pieces at the start of rehearsal. The well-organized people group them in some logical way: e.g., current Sunday (in liturgical order) vs. future material (in alphabetical order). The not-so-well-organized people stick anything anywhere and have trouble finding things during rehearsal.

If the particular collection of people in your choir tends to be more "focused" and attentive, the second approach could be fine; if they are more inclined to need help with keeping track of things, you could try something like the first approach.

Chrism

that particular rumor

I've discussed my opinions on the subject in a private audience with the Pope's Boss. I would suggest that anyone else interested should do likewise. He has time for you on His calendar.

ronkrisman

Well, "that particular rumor" from last Thursday or so was ratcheted up a notch today.

Do you read Spanish?

http://www.periodistadigital.com/religion/espana/2013/06/29/francisco-comunica-a-rouco-que-canizares-sera-su-sucesor-religion-iglesia-espana-vaticano-papa-sistach.shtml

chonak

Hi, Fr. Ron. Please start a new discussion thread if you want to talk about a different topic. This one is about advice for organizing choir music with binders. Thanks!

Chrism

.

melofluent

Binders are a necessary evil. As long as there are octavos, free or commercial, they're needed. And all the maladies that have been litanized above are true, rude and inescapable.
Since I've joined CMAA though, I've done a few adjustments. I purchase two sets of SEP's, one for rehearsal room, other for church stock. I purchase one set of SGC and Choral Communios from RR's printer, then copy internet versions which are attached to my choral ordos on Sunday, two sets of Noel's Choral Anthology, rehearsal/church, and one set of OCP Trad Praise and Choirbook for Sunday's only as we don't rehearse hymns.
For motets, Mass ordinaries, we have to keep the folders handy on Sundays cause my tenors are notorious forgetters.

Adam Wood

the maladies that have been litanized above are true, rude and inescapable.

What a wonderfully poetic statement.

The maladies that have been lit'nized
above are true, rude, inescap'ble
So I'mma set my face like flint. I'zed
best not trip on what dey cap'ble

of in my own homeslice choir,
else I'm out tha pan to fire.

Mark Husey

The most important thing about binders is that they are planned and stuffed seasonally, identically, and distributed all at once. Never, ever, ever, EVER trust your choristers to be able to organize their binders themselves. Countless rehearsal hours are lost to people who will can't find their music.

Is this a nuisance? You bet it is. Is it worth the trouble in running an efficient rehearsal? You bet it is.

We have two semi-permanent sets and one rotating set of binders, color coded. What the colors are doesn't matter (to me, particularly), but notice how they are laid out:

Blue- Ordinary Time (10 dividers for 10 weeks worth of repertory)
Gray- Lent/Triduum/Easter (semi-permanent: some rep is repeated annually and shouldn't have to be restuffed)
Black - Advent/Christmastide (semi-permanent)

The Blue binders' contents may include octavos or music from IMSLP or CPDL. Its mixed in with repertory we sing from our anthologies (Oxford's Weddings for Choirs, New Church Anthem Book, and European Sacred Music being the big 3. Choral scholars sing from Anthems for Choirs 2 and High Praise 1 & 2 and the Tudor Anthem Book).

I expect the wrath of hell to rain down upon me for the following organizational tactic, but I learned it from a choir director who made a spiral booklet for his choir when they went on European tours.

For my elementary school choristers, I produce booklets that are reduced copies of music we already own in multiple copies. It's size is 8.5 x 14" folded in half- the copy machine we have allows me to produce these little choristers' manuals and they are INCREDIBLY efficient.

see attachments.

angelgirl1151

Wow Mark, that looks quite nice. I never thought of enticing them with an organization/format like that--does anyone else have any other samples of what they do and how they do it?

matthewj

My choirs provide their own binders and 3 dividers with tabs.

The dividers split the binder into:
1) Gradual
2) Kyriale
3) Anthems/Motets

In the Gradual is all of the music for each Sunday... Its pages are numbered at the bottom of the page in the middle.
The Introit is there and/or hymn is in there
A note on the page where to find the Kyrie and Gloria
The Psalm is in there and a note on where to find the Alleluia.
The Offertory and/or hymn (and a note on where to find the motet if there is one) is in there and a note on where the Sanctus, Mysterium and Agnus Dei are.
The Communio is in there, along with a note on where to find any Communion Psalms and the anthem or motet.
Any Recessional music is in there.

In the Kyriale are all of the ordinary parts and repeated parts we'll be using for the year... Its pieces are numbered by A, B, C, D, E, F, etc. with the letter appearing in the top right hand side of the page.
Several settings of the Kyrie
Several settings of the Gloria
Several Alleluia settings
Several settings of the Sanctus
The three Mysterium settings from the Missal
Several Agnus Dei settings
A dozen Communion Psalms

The Anthems/Motets section are pieces that won't be repeated. Once used they're not used again for the remainder of the year. These are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. with the numbers appearing in the top right hand side of the page.
Several motets
Several anthems
Standards that can be used if we haven't learned the motet in time (Mode VI Ave Verum, Ubi Caritas, Mode I Ave Maria)

ScottKChicago

*Choir members binders are kept in labeled slots in a shelf or rack (next to the pencil sharpener).

I misread this as "Choir members are kept in labeled slots in a shelf or rack..."

Perhaps that's another alternative if nothing else works.

Adam Wood

Middle school is a tough crowd.

TCJ

I can say that I've often wanted to implement the binders by banging them over the heads of my choir members. I'm fairly certain that it is permissible for frustrated music directors to do such things as these. Temporary insanity would probably fly in court.

Gavin

Temporary?

Adam Wood

I don't know. Beating choristers over the head with binders might indicate a momentary bout of complete and lucid sanity.

Welcome to the MusicaSacra Forum!

Categories