Two Questions on Vespers II of the Solemnity of Christ the King
  • awilliamsawilliams
    Posts: 101
    I have been listening to the choir podcast from the Pontifical North American college (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pontifical-north-american/id595144587?mt=2) and have developed two questions which I hope readers can help me understand.

    Firstly, where can I find the melodies for the Alleluia Canticle used in Vespers II for this day (and others). I have seen several texts which have different melodies (Mundelein Psalter/Steven van Roode). None of these match the melody used by the PNAC in their podcast "Habet in Vestimento (Canticle)" or are even in the same mode (VII). Les Heures Gregoriennes seems to imply that the canticle is sung to the psalm tone as the other psalms and canticles are but this seems a little odd due to the repeating Alleluias. Is this just another hole in the modern Gregorian repetoire?

    Secondly, I noticed that in Steven van Roode's pdfs he lists "Habet in Vestimento" as the Magnificat antiphon with other antiphons ad. lib. for years B and C. However, the PNAC and Les Heures Gregoriennes seem to agree that "Habet in Vestimento" is the Canticle antiphon in the Psalter and the Magnificiat antiphon is "Data est Mihi" with no options for years B and C.

    I do not own a copy of the Antiphonale Romanum so I am not sure what is included there.

    Thanks.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I'm headed to bed, but will check my OF Antiphonale Romanum II for you in the morning.

    In the meantime, here's some background on discrepancies one encounteres in the OF chanted Office. Mr. van Roode's booklet follows the 1983 Ordo Cantus Officii. The Antiphonale Romanum II follows an as yet unreleased revision to the OCO. Les Heures Gregorienne does odd things on Sundays and solemnities, but I have a small hunch it follows the unreleased revised OCO for the four-week Psalter in Ordinary Time.

    One can also piece together the Benedictus and Magnificat antiphons in the unreleased revised OCO by consulting the Antiphonale Monasticum I, II, III, released by Solesmes around 2006-2008. They correspond almost exactly to those in the Antiphonale Romanum II. Obviously, because the Benedictine OF Office still includes all the psalms in a one-week Psalter, it is of much less help in trying to deduce the unreleased revised OCO Psalter.

    The Canticle from Revelation at II Vespers is included in various (all or nearly all) modes as a tropary (the form it resembles in the spoken Office) in the Antiphonale Romanum II. If this is something that interests you, you will not be disappointed by obtaining a copy!
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 978
    Indeed, the Ordo Cantus Officii and the Antiphonale Romanum II differ. For Vespers II of Christ the King:

    OCO:
    A1: Super solium David
    A2: Regnum tuum Domine
    Cant. Salus et gloria more responsoriali
    MA: Habet in vestimento
    vel ad libitum:
    MAb: De caelo veniet
    MAc: Ait latro ad latronem

    AR II:
    A1: Super solium David
    A2: Regnum tuum, regnum omnium
    A3: Habet in vestimento
    MA: Data est mihi

    I just don't understand why the revision of OCO hasn't been published yet.

    As an aside, the antiphon Habet in vestimento was a Magnificat antiphon in the 1934 Antiphonale Monasticum.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Thanks, Steven.

    I should add that, in this case, AR II follows exactly the antiphons given in the Liturgia Horarum (the recited Office in Latin). I've been putting together a chart detailing these differences in an attempt to make my own best choices, and I've found a tendency toward (but this is not consistent) matching more closely the antiphons of the Liturgia Horarum in the changes made to the revised OCO as demonstrated in AR II, the Gospel canticle antiphons of AM I-III, and (I suspect) the four-week Psalter of HG.

    I believe they may be waiting until the official books that will follow the OCO can be published so that changes may be made up to the moment of publication, should they (Solesmes and/or the CDW) choose to do so. Frustrating, I know, but there's nothing we can do.

    I believe I'm correct in saying that the 1983 OCO, which frequently includes options for Lectionary cycles A, B, and C, at the Gospel canticles, predates by a few years when these were introduced into the actual Liturgia Horarum, and from all the anecdotes I've heard, different groups in Rome working on these kinds of projects don't always communicate well with one another. Perhaps this is also some of the concern here in releasing the revised OCO before the books.
  • awilliamsawilliams
    Posts: 101
    Looks like I just need to buckle down and get the AR II.

    Thanks for the help.