Good Friday para-liturgy
  • costanzodcostanzod
    Posts: 15
    I participated in a liturgical prayer service on Good Friday at 7:30PM. The pastor said it was taken from an ancient Polish tradition. There were 3 Scripture readings and a sung Psalm, prayer of the faithful. The Scriptures were NOT the Scriptures (Passion, etc) from the Good Friday Passion. The intentions were also quite different. I accompanied a cantor with Pie Jesu (Faure). The congregants were called forward to be anointed with myrrh. Following this, the Paschal candle was wrapped in cloth and carried around the church and put away in a tomb. No Holy Communion was offered. I don't remember how the service ended. Does anyone else know of this type of liturgy happening?
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    So the ancient Poles were singing Faure's Pie Jesu?
    Fascinating.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Ally
    Posts: 227
    Was this intended to replace the regular liturgy for Good Friday, or was this in addition to? (Maybe it makes no difference)
  • costanzodcostanzod
    Posts: 15
    The Poles listened to the Pie Jesu. He also included a recording of Szymanowski's Stabat Mater in this prayer service.

    This Lord's Burial Liturgy was in addition to Morning Prayer, 12 Noon Stations, 3PM (English) 5:30 PM(Polish)
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    The "burial," as it were, happens Thursday night.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,944
    Well, the tradition of the Lord's sepulchre is a BIG medieval one, one that in many places was swept out with the Tridentine reforms.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    I wonder if this might have some relation to the Byzantine service of Lamentations offered on Good Friday evening; in some churches, it is called the "Funeral of Christ". It features songs of mourning, full of the paradox of the Living One (God) lying as a dead man. It culminates in a procession in which the icon of Christ (already dismounted from the Cross at an earlier service) is borne in procession and placed in a "tomb".
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,944
    Chonak

    They are different strands of a larger tradition, but the Western tradition was rationalized away in the modernizations of the Counter-Reformation, with some folkways preservation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Sepulchre

    Then think about the afikomen of Pesach....


    Then there are things like the spectacular Holy Spirit-dove that shoots out of the Duomo in Florence during the bell-ringing of the Gloria during the Mass of the Easter Sunday liturgy to set off fireworks:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT5qr1xqbKo

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoppio_del_carro
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    chonak ... This is just what I was thinking, from my experience with the Ukrainian Catholic Church.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Costanzod, might I suggest that you avoid publicly airing grievances against your former pastor? You've posted about this para-liturgy, his banning of hymns, and other rather specific complaints you have with his decision-making. I and many of us here sympathize and mourn over your recent misfortune, but you run the risk that you may either cause scandal in your former parish if someone finds this or that you may damage your own reputation as an agreeable person to work with.

    Whatever silly liturgical decisions your former boss may have made are now moot and irrelevant to you and the rest of us. It's good to highlight how the liturgy should be celebrated and avoid the pitfalls of "creativity". But there comes a point when we risk glorying in the failings of another. For your own sake, move on.

    I hesitate to post this publicly, except that others here (you may or may not know who you are...) are prone to similarly air grievances with former or current employers. I suspect I have been guilty of it myself. So I say this to encourage us all: let's say what we will at the bar over whiskeys (or ice cream cones for Ben), but here let's avoid pointing out bad decisions for the sake of showing how perfect we are. And if we do have complaints with priests, let's address the priest directly, or seek settling of more serious issues through the proper channels.
    Thanked by 1MarkThompson
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    I looked around the net a bit for some clues about what this service might be, and perhaps it should be considered a variation on Tenebrae.

    Gavin, I found this particular discussion informative, and I'm glad that the member brought this up.
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
    .
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    I'm assuming, MHI, that the old year's Paschal candle was used in this ceremony.
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
    .
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Trying not to offend, but out of frustration I almost am compelled towards a weird iconoclasm over this one. We "bury" the Alleluia on AW. The Easter candle is yet maintained for funerals until....these are sacral symbols, not icons per se, no?
    Cozd reported he "particpated" as an accompanist at this "prayer service" which later he mentioned was part of a schedule of a 3pm and 5pm "service" which we're left to deduce comprised the formal GF Liturgy. Okay, so we have another local, perhaps culturally inspired observance. It, to me, is more than a little ambiguous and redundant which could "confuse" devotion with some synchretism (sp?) But, OTOH, its observance could be of true devotional worth to many.
  • Ally
    Posts: 227
    Melo, that's what I was thinking. If it was an addition to Good Friday, and not replacing the "normal" Liturgy of the Lord's Passion, well... many places have extra devotional activities on that day (stations, Tenebrae, etc) and so as long as the people are well catechized that this is not intended to be the same as the Liturgy of the Lord's Passion, then, well... it might be ok locally and worthwhile even (even if it sounds weird to some people!)
  • I can't imagine what other devotionals or distractions are necessary on Good Friday. Isn't Good Friday supposed to be a very solemn quite and contemplative observance of the Lord's Passion? Why on earth would we need to add on top of that? There is no opening hymn/song and no recessional, no consecration. I could see all of that becoming a distraction to what Good Friday should be. Just my humble opinion.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
    .
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Also, I think it's surprising how quickly traditions develop and escalate.

    Nineteen years ago I was in 6th grade. My "CCD" class that year did a little "Living Stations" pageant/play during Lent. It was a low-key affair- silly, but not terrible. (I played Jesus, BTW.) It happened again the next year, and the next year. At some point it got turned into a "shadow" play (back-lit onto a large screen). At some point it got moved to Good Friday. Then at some point they added a "burial" of the corpus from off the crucifix. Which evolved into a procession. Which evolved into a decorated "tomb" environment set up in the parish hall. Which evolved into an all-night vigil at the "tomb of Christ."

    Over the course of less than two decades a children's pageant turned into full-blown para-liturgical folk devotion.

    A newly placed conservative pastor shut it down this year, by the way. But imagine what this would look like given another decade or two. Or a century.

    People are weird.
    Thanked by 1Ally
  • costanzodcostanzod
    Posts: 15
    In Polish traditions that I have seen at several parishes where I worked, there is an actual tomb of Christ set up in the church from HT to past Easter Sun. There is a stone in front of the tomb and the exposed Blessed Sacrament in a monstrance. The tomb is guarded round the clock until the Vigil, then again until the Dawn mass of the Resurrection whereupon the beginning the Monstrance is carried in procession followed by Mass. The tomb-guarders take their job very seriously, are dressed in ethnic Polish costumes (usually men guard the tomb). The statue body of Christ is placed in the tomb laying down and covered then becomes the same statue placed (standing victoriously) on top of the tomb on Easter morning with a banner in His right hand.

    Thus it seems to me that the experience described by Adam has its origins in ethnic Polish culture and in the end it may have resembled something close to it.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Thus it seems to me that the experience described by Adam has its origins in ethnic Polish culture and in the end it may have resembled something close to it.


    Not Polish- we did not have a large Polish community. Also, remember that this thing developed in the late 1990s and early 2000s (and in Central Florida)- far from the Eastern-European migration that shaped American Catholicism.

    I wasn't there for most of the history of this development, but I suspect it grew out of:

    1. a latent devotionalism among the substantial Spanish-speaking population.

    2. a desire on the part of liberal lay people to create a liturgical experience outside the official mainstream.

    3. an over-enthusiastic attempt by aging youth ministers to
    (a) appeal to the youth and
    (b) recreate a "glory age" of youth involvement and excitement in the parish (my era, when the original practice started, when the latest youth minister was still young parent volunteer, and when attendance and engagement was at its high point)

    On thinking of the two people in particular who spearheaded this effort over the last several years, I suspect one of them was operating mostly under the influence of (2) [a very liberal "Lay Pastoral Associate"], while the other under (3b) [Parent of a former youth-group kid my age, who was a young mom and volunteer back in the day and who inherited the position sometime in the last several years]. I think (1) was simply the environmental factor that allowed it to flourish.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "I think it's surprising how quickly traditions develop and escalate."

    I disagree. I think it's unfortunate how eager people are to quickly set something in stone and then call it a tradition. My favorite quote comes from a Lutheran ex-girlfriend: "only Americans could be dumb enough to call something less than a generation old a 'tradition.'"

    Not that I have a problem with new devotions. But people can be too quick to ossify them. "We did it this way the last 5 years" quickly turns into "our TRADITION is to do this!" When said tradition only has gone on for 6 years.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    "I think it's surprising how quickly traditions develop and escalate."


    I disagree. I think it's unfortunate how eager people are to quickly set something in stone and then call it a tradition.


    You and I are in agreement here. I should have phrased it:
    It's surprising how quickly stuff that was just made up the other day turns into " tradition."
    (note the scare quotes)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    At my Episcopal parish, they hang curtains over these big floor-to-ceiling windows at the back of the Sanctuary, a completely practical practice that happened because the morning sun is literally blinding at certain times of the year.

    But, of course, they put them up whether it's that time of year or not, and even when it is overcast. It's just one of the things the altar guild does as part of "setting up."

    I have often joked that in another generation, those curtains will have been elevated to "tradition," and that in another generation there will be deep theological explanations for the use of the curtains. If we move to another building that has no such windows, I half expect to the see the curtains adorning the solid wall.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Quite serious prediction: In 200 years, the Missale Romanum, Book of Common Prayer, etc. will all include in the offertory's holy rites the Lavabo, preceded by the Manum Sanitatio.
    Thanked by 2Ally CindyCecilia
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Vatican Council IV in 2567 will decree that the rites be simplified to remove accretions. The Manum Sanitatio will be abolished, as will be the minor order of Armflapper, and the Opening Rites will have removed that ancient and venerable dialog:

    P: Good morning everyone! C: Good morning, Father. P: How about this weather? (Here the congregation must chuckle twice, symbolizing the two natures of Christ.)

    The Council will remind everyone that the acoustic guitar has "pride of place" in the Roman liturgy, but sadly theremins will permeate churches everywhere, as the "spirit of Vatican IV" outpaces the letter.

    The FSSBXVI will split from the church, only celebrating the Missal of 2562, particularly because of the watered-down offertory rites. "What good Catholic doesn't know that the Manum Sanitatio reminds us of the Gel of the Holy Spirit coming down upon our palms, and removing 99.99% of our sins!"

    (This post may be a less serious prediction, though it is a commentary on what passes for "tradition.")
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Another Polish tradition: the Resurection Procession at the first Mass of Easter Sunday, beginning at the Sepulchre: Go to 3:10 for the action.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22iAWsjRHh0
    Thanked by 2chonak CHGiffen
  • costanzodcostanzod
    Posts: 15
    The Resurrection procession is what I mentioned in my last post. Wesoly (what they sing in the video) is THEE Most traditional and first hymn sung Easter morning in Every Polish church! (This I know having played for many in Chicago)
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    We have a Resurrection procession every year. Unfortunately we don't have any guards to fall over . . . but perhaps we can convince the local KofC to come for next year! (Yes, the pastor has thought of it . . .)