Offertory Music
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    With the summer time upon us, I've decided to forego the 4-hymn sandwich and play instrumentals for Offertory. Does anybody have any good music they can suggest that is written for organ without pedals? I am using a synthesizing keyboard with a decent organ setting.

    I will continue to use Processional hymns, communion chants and Recessional hymns that are cantor-lead. But, I'd appreciate any suggestions and links to instrumentals for Offertory. Thanks so much.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Musicteacher56,

    I can't say that I think forgoing the offertory is a good idea -- unless you mean merely the offertory hymn. Might you sing the offertory chant, as appointed? Then, you could use any of the music by William Boyce or John Stanley, both of whom wrote without requiring pedals.

    (I know that the etiquette for this site says I'm supposed to be informative, so I'm going to try mightily to do this without being pedantic.)


    The "summer break" is a perfect opportunity to introduce chant, since you may be down to a skeletal choir, or less than that. The advantage to introducing chant during the summer (instead of Advent or Lent) is that you create the idea of chant without the often-accompanying idea of sorrow. If you sing the psalm, and if using the Gradual and Tract together is impossible, use some un-accompanied setting, and use the time to let the congregation hear its own voice. You might do the same thing at Communion: choose the proper antiphon text, and sing psalm verses in between iterations of the antiphon.

    God bless,

    Chris
    Thanked by 5Adam Wood CHGiffen Gavin Andrew_Malton marajoy
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I'd try doing the SEP antiphon (w/ or w/o verses), then move on with the organ piece.
  • Paul_OnnonhoaratonPaul_Onnonhoaraton
    Posts: 434
    Musicteacher56, the Dom Gregory Murray 100 Interludes without pedals are fantastic.

    Click here

    Flor Peeters also wrote "Manuals only" organ pieces.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Kevin Mayhew publishes collections like, "50 Baroque Fillers for Organ" that can be played on manuals. Various composers are represented, but the small works by John Stanley are favorites.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    I suppose I should also note that, modern agitation notwithstanding, there is no such thing as DEAD time at a Mass. Leaving such quiet time as you can actually quiet would do two things: persuade others that musicians don't think of themselves as the reason for the liturgy; allow the music (singing or otherwise) which remained to have greater strength.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Of all the differences between (typical) Episcopal and (typical) Roman practice, the Episcopal habit of having the choir sing something during the offertory, instead of the congregation, is probably the one I appreciate the most.
    Thanked by 5M. Jackson Osborn SkirpR Gavin CHGiffen Heath
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    I meant exclusively the Offertory hymn, not music entirely.

    Thank you, Paul, for your link. Sounds great.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    How about . . . silence?
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    I thought about silence, but I reserve that for after Communion. I think too much silence is not good, either. At least during Ordinary Time. During Advent and Lent, which are reflective times, the SEP or silence is great, but during OT, I'd rather have something played.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    How much other silence is there in your Sunday Masses. The temptation for musicians is to assume we have to add value (and demonstrate our value) by doing.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Of all the differences between (typical) Episcopal and (typical) Roman practice, the Episcopal habit of having the choir sing something during the offertory, instead of the congregation, is probably the one I appreciate the most.


    I have come to this same conclusion - although with little or now Episcopalian influence. It seems an odd time to have the congregation singing with their heads buried in books.

    First, they're seated! What communal gathering in which there is singing involved (sacred or secular) has people sit down to sing?

    Also, there's a lot of important liturgical action going on from a possible offertory procession to the actual offertory prayers and the priests washing of hands, to a possible incensation... The congregation should be able to really see this as they pray it, which is hard with your head in a hymnal or leaflet.

    When I'm doing a choral piece (and in a situation where I can't do the Offertory chant), I've taken to doing it here rather than after communion - where the GIRM specifically suggests all should sing.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    In most protestant churches, the Offertory is the high point of quality. A grand anthem, carefully prepared.

    In most Catholic churches, the Offertory is the high point of mediocrity. A hymn, often truncated, which, even though it be one of the best hymns in the hymnal, no one wants to sing.
    Thanked by 3Adam Wood Paul F. Ford Heath
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    There is the Oxford books of service music which comes in both man+ped or manual only editions. In book 1 of the man+ped edition there is a nice short interlude on Picardy which I regularly use and improvise on. I highly recommend these oxford service music collections.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    How about after the Offertory Antiphon you sing the Marian Chant of the season. In OT it is Salve Regina.
    On another note. I was confronted by one of our priests. We sang the Offertory Antiphon out of the LCM (Lumen Christi Missal) then the Salve Regina. After that we had silence. The priest had to recite only half (Praise to you Lord God...) of the offertory prayers that the people responded (blessed by God forever). His comment was that he should either recite all of it or the music should continue until he has finished the washing.
    I will try to have something else ready to go in case this ever happens again.
  • Ally
    Posts: 227
    But the priest doesn't have to say it out loud just because you finished 20 seconds before him... I don't think there's anything wrong with silence!
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    A bishop's rack full of voluntaries.
    Just my opinion, silence there, especially if there is a dearth of it elsewhere, seems to elevate the solemnity of the Money Gathering in an unfortunate manner...

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
    Thanked by 2Gavin Heath
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    My pastor has also told me the thing about offertory music extending until he washes his hands. He said something about a prayer that he must say aloud unless there is music being sung/played. My solution to that is to finish the anthem (choir mass) or whatever I am playing (all other masses) then play softly on an 8' flute a hymn from The Hymnal 1940. I stop when he walks over to the servers to wash his hands. A good time is had by all, I suppose, since everyone seems happy.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    We basically follow the 4-hymn model. Although I have seen the light (through this forum) I can't convince the parish otherwise. I have typically featured a choir anthem for prelude and/or communion. A couple of Lents ago I decided to feature the choir piece at offertory instead (to make room at communion for the proper antiphon and psalm followed by the familiar hymn). It made sense and the choir liked the change, but boy did the complaints roll in!

    I know it has been said before but music written for the harmonium or harpsichord or clavichord work nicely as manual only organ voluntaries. Also as one who was not trained primarily as an organist, I have relied on several organ/keyboard journals to build up my organ library. Wayne Leupold had a Keyboardist's Year's Journal --now out of print, but back copies are still available. All of the pieces could be played on either piano or organ manuals only (they also featured MIDI registrations for those who like to experiment!). It's not a Catholic publication and I don't find everything usable/liturgical but it's been good for sight reading and technical studies. The Organist's Companion by WL also features works for manual only. In fact I have noticed quite a few pieces titled Offertory or Communion or Elevation that work well as meditative organ solos. Much of the historic stuff can probably be found on the "Bishop's Rack" mentioned above, but there are also contemporary composers featured as well.

    btw, I'm curious about the "Elevations" (such as those by Guilmant and others): was it common practice for the organ to play during the consecration? Would this have been for Low Mass only or used as filler between the sung parts of a missa cantata? Was this a universal practice or just French?
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • Spriggo
    Posts: 122

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  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    Earl_Grey - I think it was mainly French. I've heard it referred to as a "French Organ Mass," although I have no idea whether it was Low Mass or Missa Cantata.
    Thanked by 1Earl_Grey
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Just bought the last copy of the Dom Murray from Sheet Music Plus. It says, "Modal Interludes for Organ by Andrew Moore, Liturgical Interludes by Dom Gregory Murray and Adagio Collection by Noel Rawsthorne. 148 interludes for organ with pedals." With all the organ music that I own, I don't know how I missed this one.
    Thanked by 2Gavin R J Stove
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    A major factor regarding what can be played/sung at the Offertory is whether incense is used.
    Where it is not, there is usually a lot less time.
    We have two sung masses on Sunday- one with incense, one without.
    When incense is used, we have time for the Gregorian offertory, a motet, and often organ improvisation. When incense is not used, we have just enough time for the (Gregorian, longer) chant.

    As far as this being a case of learning from the Anglicans, that's true for many Catholic parishes in current times. However, the Anglicans got the idea from their Catholic forebears. (Polyphonic motets, anyone?) It's more a case of Catholic liturgical amnesia than needing to reach out of our own tradition. I would certainly thank the Anglicans/Episcopalians for keeping it alive, though!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    We do incense at one of our Sunday OF masses. It isn't an Anglican or EF thing, we just do it because the priest prefers to. The congregation seems to think it is a great idea, so they are on board with it. I extend whatever music I am using to cover the extra time.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    However, the Anglicans got the idea from their Catholic forebears


    Of course.

    I was just stating it based on my direct experience.

    Funny story:
    Since I work in an Episcopal Church, I have tried to learn as much about Episcopal and Anglican practice as possible. To a casual observer, there is not a lot of difference (and sometimes, no noticeable difference) between a Roman Catholic Mass and an Episcopal service. But, if you're paying attention, there obvious discrepancies.

    I have found that divergent practices fall into two general categories: ones I like, and ones I don't like. (This is a very useful taxonomy.)

    I have further found that the "ones I like" tend to have a precedent in older versions of the BCP, and usually, in the pre-V2 Roman Rite.
    And I have found that the ones I don't like, upon research, were mostly made up adaptations without precedent.
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    That is funny, Adam.
    I find your taxonomy pure genius.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Andrew_Malton
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    Our parish (apparently, as I have only been there just over six months) hasn't had a congregational sung offertory in over 20 years. They have always had either a choir motet or organ at that time.

    I have found that it works wonders for the singing in the rest of the Mass. Since they aren't just being given "busy work" at the offertory, the congregation is much more willing to sing the parts of the Mass that belong to them.
    Thanked by 4Paul_Onnonhoaraton Adam Wood gregp Heath
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    Andrew--thank you! That's my point in trying to do this in my parish. Too many people want to sing all the pretty hymns and then are quiet at the mass parts. Perhaps if I stopped singing Offertory hymns, they would be more apt to sing the Sanctus. And, although I wouldn't exactly call the offertory hymn "busy work", you do have a point!
    Thanked by 1gregp
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    I am surprised that your congregations don't sing a hymn at the offertory during the Christmas season. Of all seasons of the year, in my experience that is the season where there is not enough space for the music the congregation *wants* to sing....
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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    Thanked by 1Earl_Grey
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    About the "elevations", it is possible -- though I'm not speaking from possession of the whole truth -- that the "elevations" may be the result of something else entirely. It is common, for example, when we use chant ordinaries, to sing Sanctus and Benedictus together. When we sing polyphonic ordinaries, Sanctus is sung where you would expect it, and Benedictus is sung after the Consecration is complete. Pope Benedict, when still Cardinal Ratzinger, made allusion to this in one of his books.
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    The "elevations" were really meant to be played during the Elevation, and that even at Pontifical High Mass. The Sanctus was sung before the Elevation, the Benedictus after it, and in between was played the Elevation. This can be read in the Caeremoniale Episcoporum (1600 and almost unchanged 1752 and 18something).
    Thanked by 2Earl_Grey MHI
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Thank you for the correction.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Such a practice would be illicit under current liturgical law, correct? At least there shouldn't be music while the priest is speaking. Maybe if he elevated the host for a few minutes it could work. Not that I'm suggestion we restore the practice, though since the pieces were originally conceived for this solemn part of the Mass they seem to work well for extra organ music during the communion procession (or offertory, which was the original topic; sorry for digressing).
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I like the Elevations of the Italian composers. I haven't done anything like we're describing, but if I were to, I would definitely use the Elevations.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Good point. I forgot about the elevations in my Italian organ book. I guess it wasn't exclusively French afterall.
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    If I remember Musicam sacram correctly, it indeed is not licit. One could retain a living practice by virtue of immemorial custom, but I suppose nobody is doing this anymore.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    I wonder if the practice might survive in Europe somewhere.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,190
    @Chonak: A certain parish in Paris retains the practice.....
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
    From the Cæremoniale Episcoporum, bk. 1, ch. 28, n. 9, as given in Terry, Catholic Church Music (1907):
    In solemn Mass, the organ may play alternately at the Kyrie, Gloria, at the end of the Epistle, at the Offertory, alternately at the Sanctus, afterwards till the Pater, but more solemnly and sweetly at the Elevation; immediately after the Elevation an appropriate motet may be sung; alternately at the Agnus, and afterwards till the Post-Communion and at the end of Mass.

    Re: the "appropriate motet": it is a French custom to sing O salutaris Hostia here.

    Re: Musicam sacram: its provisions would not, I think, apply to the EF.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    MHI, I always thought Musicam sacram did apply to the EF since its publication date is Sept. 3, 1958, while Pope Pius XII was still alive, but maybe you meant to say the OF?

    At any rate, re: music during the Canon of the Mass for the EF, B. Andrew Mills has these guidelines in his book, Psallite Sapienter (a musician's guide to the 1962 Roman Missal):

    Organ may be played quietly (if it's not Advent or Lent), but the music should be brought to a conclusion as soon as possible after the celebrant has said aloud "Nobis quoque peccatoribus".

    I have been to EF Low Masses where the organ is played continuously from the Sanctus to the Agnus Dei, but according to Musicam sacram, De musica sacra, this practice was to be abandoned, and the organ must be silent (at an EF Low Mass):

    a) After the arrival of the priest at the altar until the Offertory
    b) From the first versicles before the Preface until the Sanctus inclusive;
    c) Where the custom exists, from the Consecration to the Pater Noster;
    d) From the Lord's Prayer to the Agnus Dei inclusive; at the Confiteor before the Communion of the Faithful; while the Postcommunion is being said and the Blessing given at the end of Mass.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
    @JulieColl: Maybe you mean the instruction De musica sacra (issued 3 September 1958)?

    The instruction Musicam sacram is from 1967, in the pontificate of Pope Paul VI; thus, as I have said, I do not think that it would apply to the EF; but I can see how the similarity of the names might be confusing.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    I'm sorry; you're absolutely correct!
    Thanked by 1MHI
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