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  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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    Thanked by 5Adam Wood CHGiffen Ben_Whitworth Chrism Paul F. Ford
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    This is wonderful.

    If you don't mind me saying so, and this is just my first-glance opinion after one reading: It strikes me as possibly too poetic (or too literary [?] )for singing as a congregational hymn.

    (Not that all hymns need be sung by congregations or anything.)

    Thanked by 1MHI
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    It is indeed wonderful.

    I have a quibble though, as well. Is it possible that since our best examples of translation are from the 19th century Oxford Movement (and fellow travellers), their diction might have an influence on some of your word choices?

    This is a prejudice of mine, because I feel that the best chance we have of "invading" the common usage lies in a kind of simplicity of diction. The thoughts of the ancient hymns have a perennial validity in the Church, so if we were able to convey these thoughts in an accessible voice, everyone might feel ownership of them. Then you've really got em.


    Thanked by 3Adam Wood CHGiffen MHI
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Kathy said what I said, but better.

    That having been said, I do want to emphasize how impressed I am with the quality of the poetry and its value as literature.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Kathy
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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    Thanked by 2Kathy CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Tiny quibble, which I wouldn't bring up in works of less-consistent quality:

    for this also the bitter spear:


    The accent seems to fall, inappropriately, on the "-so" of "also".

    I have not had time to fully think through the implications, but "for also this" would fix the meter, and set up a grammatical parallelism with the previous line that I find delightful.
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I did this with the Gregorian melody in my head, so the accents probably didn't seem quite so important


    Yes I can see how that would happen.
    Do you have a link to a score or recording?

    You will notice that there is also one a single rhyme per stanza,


    I did notice that. The other effect (besides making translation easier) is a less sing-songy quality which, on the style scale, moves it toward Shakespeare and away from Dr. Seuss. (I'm a huge fan of both, BTW.)
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Wouldn't you say that I have now moved further away from deliberate archaism?

    Yes indeed. A very fair point, thank you.

    I love the following:
    gleaming of the Father’s gleam.

    and let the nations draw the grace
    of pardon at that spring, thy Heart.

    thy Sire (I've never thought of this before and plan to steal it.)

    By the way, for general interest, the threefold scheme of earth, sea and stars in verse 2 is a constant riff in Latin hymns. I don't know if it's meant to somehow reflect the Trinity, or why the number 3 is important here, but it's quite a trope.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Adam Wood MHI
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    To my mind this one is straining after the seventeenth century.

    An enviable century for English verse!
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    By the way, for general interest, the threefold scheme of earth, sea and stars in verse 2 is a constant riff in Latin hymns.


    Ipse iussit et creata,
    dixit ipse et facta sunt,
    Terra, caelum, fossa ponti,
    trina rerum machina,
    Quaeque in his vigent sub alto
    solis et lunae globo.
    Saeculorum saeculis.

    At His Word the worlds were framèd;
    He commanded; it was done:
    Heaven and earth and depths of ocean
    In their threefold order one;
    All that grows beneath the shining
    Of the moon and burning sun,
    Evermore and evermore!

    (v2 of OF the Father's Love Begotten, trans. Neale)
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Aeterne rerum conditor (no, not that one, the other one)

    Eternal maker of all things,
    you govern everything as King:
    the sea, the sun, the heavn’ly vault,
    and pay each one for good or fault.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    The God whom earth and sea and sky
    Adore and laud and magnify...

  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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    Thanked by 3Adam Wood Kathy CHGiffen
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Hope this is cool with y'all: http://www.chantcafe.com/2013/06/hymn-for-solemnity-of-most-sacred-heart.html
    Thanked by 1MHI
  • Chrism
    Posts: 873
    This is really well done. One of the finest hymns I've ever previewed at this forum.

    I appreciate that while maintaining the traditional English 2nd person singular pronoun for the Almighty, you have also avoided obscure vocabulary which would seem to be from prior centuries. A couple of the words (e.g., "pangs", "Sire") strike the American ear as peculiarly British.
    Thanked by 1MHI
  • MHIMHI
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  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
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