The Parish Council and Chant...
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I am heading into a Parish Council meeting to defend my use of chant during Lent. Prayers and support appreciated. :)

    (My last supper was a simple microwaved lunch. Pasta with meat sauce, to be exact.)
  • I used SEP during Lent and nobody complained "too much". My excuse at the time was that it was Lent and I wanted to change the approach to music during this time. I continued after Easter for the Communio, but added hymns to appease. And all of this is coming off a director who for years and years insisted on P&W music, along with guitars, drums and tambourines. It's been very rough, but can be done. Good luck.
  • hcmusicguy
    Posts: 63
    Arm yourself with the GIRM and Musicam Sacram! Most parish councils and "liturgy committees" know NOTHING about these.
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    That's almost exactly what my situation is. I'm not sure what their issues are but I'll find out tonight.
    I think they are also afraid of Latin. I used all of the Introits from the Graduale Simplex for Lent and, about halfway through the season, taught them before Mass and made sure the translation was there for them. Then, for Good Friday, I chanted the Improperia directly from the Graduale Romanum with the traditional Latin/Greek text. Both the foreign language and the English translations were printed side-by-side for the congregation, but I made it clear that it was not necessary that the congregation sing EVERYTHING. I expect some of the backlash will be coming from that as well.

    Once again, "full, conscious, and active participation" being taken to the extreme....
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    Thanks! I originally started questioning the four-hymn sandwich on which I had been brought up because of the official documents of the church, so hopefully I am well-read enough to be able to "arm" myself with them. I have also found that the Introduction to the SEP is well written and provides some very useful explanations about "Why" we use the Propers.

    Thankfully, I have an INCREDIBLY knowledgeable Director of Liturgy who is very supportive of all I have done. BUT the church just laid her off....
  • elaine60elaine60
    Posts: 85
    Will keep all in prayer.
  • Bkenney,

    Those who have already set your execution style and date can not - yet - be convinced. On the other hand, if you ask why the Committee asks you to defend yourself, why not ask what the nature of their problem is with what you have done? As likely as not, it's fear. If that's the case, reason won't work - yet- why not ask if we, you and they, can study the Church's teaching together. No outside commentary, but just the documents.

    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • The Parish Council is not the place for you to do anything. Parish Council advises priest, priest is responsible for you and what you do.

    Priest should be handling this.

    It's like a school board calling in a first grade teacher for her/him to justify the curriculum that they are using...the principal approves the curriculum - that's what the school board pays her for. Any self-respecting school principal would shout these people down real fast. They do not have the education to understand what should be taught, nor do they understand the state laws that the principal must abide by, nor do they evaluate your teaching in the classroom on a regular basis.

    They PAY the principal to do this for them.

    Where the hell is your priest?
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    Thanks for the input! The meeting went fairly well. I started with "I know you have questions, but let me present first, and see if I answer any of your questions in the process." At the end, I fielded very few questions. I copied excerpts of the GIRM, Roman Missal, Graduale Romanum, Graduale Simplex, and the Simple English Propers for use as visual aids.
    I ended up essentially lecturing on the Propers of the Mass and why they are important, but also the GIRM and how it influences how Mass is celebrated.

    Most on the council had no idea about the Propers and found it fascinating. The Pastor offered some wonderful words about lyrics of more modern hymns that remove God and center on "me." One member even approached me after and said he wants to purchase the GIRM and read it. The same member expressed that he "hated" the chant before the meeting, and afterwards said "I'm really at a crossroads! You've given me a lot to think about."

    All in all, a successful endeavor. Thank you for your input and your support!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Please don't change the "package" wholly on a dime. Demonstrate discretion by condeding that propers can be rendered in English via a number of options. If you're already able to chant appropriately from the GS, then throw the folks a bone alternatively with a Bruce or Paul Ford or an Adam Bartlett. Let them know you're aware of their cognitive abilities. The medium, chant, will signal all that you need to convey that progressive solemnity is in the house. You seem politically savvy, but chart each new benchmark with irrefutable strategy and rationale.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    I don't work for the parish council, the liturgy committee, or the business manager. I work for the pastor, and that has been clear from the beginning. Sometimes it is good to remind others of that, but it is the best arrangement.
    Thanked by 2bkenney27 elaine60
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    Please don't change the "package" wholly on a dime. Demonstrate discretion by condeding that propers can be rendered in English via a number of options. If you're already able to chant appropriately from the GS, then throw the folks a bone alternatively with a Bruce or Paul Ford or an Adam Bartlett. Let them know you're aware of their cognitive abilities. The medium, chant, will signal all that you need to convey that progressive solemnity is in the house. You seem politically savvy, but chart each new benchmark with irrefutable strategy and rationale.


    A wonderful point, and I love that you phrased it as a request! I'm assuming that was as someone who shares the same goals as I that doesn't want to see progress destroyed by overwhelming a congregation by changing everything "on a dime."

    In that way, I should probably be a bit more specific. Our regular Masses are the typical "four hymn sandwich" mediocrity, although I DO try to plan the hymns around the Propers of the Mass first. (I was surprised to find that, for this week, Joncas has a tolerable composition for the 'God Is Love' option at communion.) For Lent, the Entrance was always the Latin Introit from the Simplex. (The third week of Lent is quite easy and short: "Oculi mei..." so I began teaching them to the congregation. Response was overwhelming so I continued to do it even for the more difficult antiphons right through Palm Sunday of the Passion of the Lord.) The Offertory was one of two English chants: Attende Domine or Parce Domine for which the congregation was only invited to sing the English antiphon. For communion, I chose three of the Simple English Propers from Lent so they would hear each of them twice. Then the recessional was a standard Lenten hymn a la "Lord Who Throughout These Forty Days" or "The Glory of These Forty Days," etc. So, rather than taking the propers directly from the Simplex, I already HAVE tried to accommodate the "culture shock" of using chant by incorporating simpler settings. Just so you don't think I came in and tried to force Latin down everyone's throats for all the propers every week! :)

    Where the hell is your priest?

    Again, I should rephrase. I was more invited to attend the Parish Council meeting. I noticed in the minutes that the "amount of Latin chant at some liturgies" was called into question which was outrageous as almost everything was in English. On Good Friday, however, I did switch to the Latin antiphon of Parce Domine for the collection and chanted the Improperia directly from the Romanum which I suspect raised some concern, even though the translation was side-by-side in the worship aid. (As an aside, it was SO gratifying to actually sing Hagios o Theos... etc.)

    To answer your question, though, my pastor is very non-confrontational. So, I was actually surprised to find that he "went to bat" for me at the meeting last night, adding to the discussion regarding theological flaws in contemporary music. He has a Doctorate in Theology so having him back up my words was not only helpful for me, but reaffirmed my own knowledge on the topic in the view of the PPC.

    That being said, I do understand that it was not entirely necessary (or appropriate) for the PPC to call this into question and then expect me to attend a meeting to discuss it; however, I will say that I am sure I presented my thoughts and goals in a more succinct and professional way than the Pastor would have. Had he presented on my behalf, I am sure it would have lead to a lot of bad feelings about the chant and paving the way for some significant difficulty down the road.

    I don't work for the parish council, the liturgy committee, or the business manager. I work for the pastor, and that has been clear from the beginning. Sometimes it is good to remind others of that, but it is the best arrangement.


    AMEN! Wonderfully put.

    Again, thank you all! I can't express the value of having a community of people that seems to share a common goal to help keep me motivated to continue plowing through mediocrity to find real quality within the Liturgy. Thankfully, in addition to all I am doing, our Archdiocesan Director of Divine Worship (who happens to be a priest and regularly runs workshops on chant) is coming to host a "staff day" at our parish to discuss Diocesan practices and sacred music in general.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    You said: "(I was surprised to find that, for this week, Joncas has a tolerable composition for the 'God Is Love' option at communion.) "

    This is a great thing to do. I believe that we would make GREAT strides in liturgical practice if we got to the point that all parishes used the propers, in some way, shape or form. Some parishes would be chanting from the Graduale Romanum, others the simple english propers, and still others would be using a Joncas or Haas setting of the proper - but ALL would be utilizing the proper text in some way or another.

    Different parishes have different musical tastes and abilities, but if we got to the point that proper texts were not ignored, we would be going a long way towards a truly universal church mindful of what it means to PRAY the mass together.
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 419
    Agree 100%^^^^
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    bk77, thank you for the nod to my suggested strategics. I believe that I have survived (never been fired) because I never lost direction with the exegenses of FCAP, the vitality and viablility of the choir, the inchoate ability to lead (with/without instrument) any genre (which I think will become a necessity soon), a good nose about beauty, and an awareness that you don't demean the congregation by either catering to them or demeaning them by means of "art."
    I don't put a lot of stock in the BIG ISSUE arguments: EF/OF, propers displacing option fours just because, on a practical not philosophical level, genres being dismissed wholesale rather than deliberation and discretion, etc. blah blah blah.
    Whatever happens in a meeting with your "council" (like they know it all), be prepared and confident, and with a smile. People seem to like the smile part more than when I was a young buck.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    I think people like the confidence and smile more than what is actually spoken. Relativism has contributed heavily to this error.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Francis, rarely have I ever practiced what I preach. Ergo, the intensity I seem to project has been both bane and boon. I don't see, however, a smile implying style over substance nor relativism amok by necessity. Sometimes a kiss is just a kiss, a smile is just a smile...
  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    I believe that we would make GREAT strides in liturgical practice if we got to the point that all parishes used the propers, in some way, shape or form.


    @PaixGioiaAmor, I agree wholeheartedly! It seems that idea is what Msgr. Wadsworth was referring to when he said, "I am convinced that a variety of musical styles could easily be admitted in the realization of this important principle" (i.e. singing the proper texts).

    I think the idea is that the universal Church can have greater unity by singing the proper texts! When you ponder those texts throughout the day, they really are quite profound.

    The full quotation and the Chant Café link to Msgr. Wadsworth's entire speech is found at
    this thread.
    Thanked by 2elaine60 CHGiffen
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I can't imagine Lent without the propers! When I discovered them it led to such a deeper understanding of the season! They are simply magnificent texts.
    And THEN, when I discovered the Improperia.... FORGET IT! They are so incredibly powerful and moving.... I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't use them.

    I am a strongly against the so-called "praise and worship" genre, but have always said that I MIGHT consider incorporating it in some....very limited.... way should someone compose settings to the Propers. "Why do we use so much chant?" Well, it is, quite frankly, the easiest genre by which to proclaim the propers musically. But, as I said, Joncas set this week's Communion Antiphon to a relatively contemporary melody.... so I used it! Even taught it before Mass. Slowly, but surely....
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    said he wants to purchase the GIRM and read it.

    Tell the guy to point his browser at the Vatican website and read it for FREE.
    More than one hundred years of documents available 24x365.

    And you could point him to this ...
    Liturgical Music Document Literacy Challenge
    Thanked by 2elaine60 bkenney27
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I believe GIA has recently begun to publish some very contemporary settings of the propers. I find this so awesome. If a LifeTeen mass were to use their typical band, but instead of singing "All Are Welcome" and "Go Make A Difference," were singing the proper texts set to modern music and instrumentation, imagine what a good understanding and catechesis of the mass this would lead to among the youth.

    Like I said, what great strides we would make (and indeed, seem to be making).
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    PGA, I presume you're referring to the Macek/Tate compilations. And yes, if properly (sorry) catechized, Life Teen youth bands would find these settings as worthy to replace staples of convenience, if they choose wisely. However, GIA.....NPM.....CMAA and all us local yokels will have to still do our homework to continue to discern the best vehicle for transmission of the proper texts within the liturgy. One of the things we must wrestle with and overcome, disabling descriptions such as "contemporary" or "modern music." Adam B, Adam W, Aristotle E, Kathy P, AOZ, Richard R, Kevin A, et al are still breathing and are not at room temperature to my knowledge, so their output is also "contemporary" and "modern." So, I think we should be very descriptive. If Kathy sets a text to CM, we should refer to strophic hymnody it that works. If Richard's Simple Choral Communio requires a "handle," say irrhythmic harmony in an orthodox or provincial French style, versus the neo-motets of his Choral Communio settings. And so forth.
    Ken and Paul's settings aren't easily typified. I would, gun to the head, say they represent the American 20c ensemble/combo of a singable melody layered by tonal and or modal harmonic constructs dependent upon piano or guitar. Let's call that SacroSong.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Very true, although I guess I sort of gave up, because pointing out what you just pointed out to me has, in the past, resulted in an angry response from parisioners and others of "You KNOW WHAT WE MEAN when we say contemporary, don't play that game ..."

    And, yeah, I guess I do know what they mean ... although the academic definition is yours, clearly when someone in a congregation says "contemporary music," they mean piano, possibly guitar, with light, singable melodies ... I guess I just have sort of given into that "street definition."
    Thanked by 1bkenney27