The Strife is O'er - rhythm question
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Do you play something (pedal or low D or whatever,) on the downbeat of the song - the first "rest" before the Alleluia's?

    Please vote - yay or nay!
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 517
    Yes.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I'm not an organist, but I always prefer to have a pedal note whenever there's a rest like that, especially at the beginning of a line.

    Keeps things moving, and cues people (if you're starting with the alleluia).
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 944
    Always.
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    Ditto.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Yes. Ditto with For All the Saints.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Yes. It is written into the score.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Yep
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Yes. It is written into the score.

    well... only if you read the accompaniment! The other organist at my church does not (he only looks at the melody, if at all, and he was been at this church waaayyy longer than I have,) so I am wondering if he does not even know that a note is there, since he does not play it. We play this hymn (and all others) at a nice, chipper tempo, so it sounds ok when he leaves it out, but when I play the note on the rest, I have the pastor trying to sing on that note (loudly, into his microphone, and yes, that's a discussion for another day.) I am glad to hear that so far everyone plays it. I think I will stick to my guns and see if I can work out my playing so it is more clear.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Then the question maybe is whether you would give a pause before the rest and start the rest with the pedal note, or use that rest as a pause like a prep. beat at end of the intro?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I do on occasion. Sometimes I forego it, if it's used between every verse.

    I played for one church (Catholic, obviously) which could not sing this hymn to save their lives. The congregation would ALWAYS come on on beat 1 instead of two. And keep singing a beat ahead of me.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Really? I've never thought that was hard.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Neither have I. It is one of my congregation's favorites, and they have never had any problems with that downbeat.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Hey, guys and gals, don't forget us!
    xoxo,
    "Festival Canticle: Worthy is Christ"
    "Ave Maria" Arcadelt
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Ha. Plus, "For All the Saints." NO ONE has trouble with that!
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 891
    Please vote - yay or nay!


    yay
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    'Victory', 'Sine Nomine', and 'Engleberg' -
    Always and forever. I have never experienced any difficulty with these notes. Not in any congregation Catholic or otherwise, ever.
    They are and always have been a part of the composed score. Omitting them would be an inexcusable presumption. (Ditto the three beat penultimate bar of 'Vigiles et Sancti'.)

    (Yay.)
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    Absolutely....always on a downbeat like that
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    I much prefer the version of The Strife is O'er as found in CBWII (the predecessor to CBWIII), which just left out the triple Alleluia.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Well, humph, of course one only does the triple alleluyas before the first, and after the last veseses 'any way'.
  • lmassery
    Posts: 405
    yay
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    It can depend on how the hymnal is edited. If the alleluias are written as a refrain and the congregation is so reading the hymn, it would be best to use it as a refrain for every verse. Congregations get confused easily, and when confused, often drop out.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Ask the choir how it's done. But, a piece of advice from my first teacher: ask them to SING it for you. A capella. Because most people cannot successfully talk about music, but their musical memory will tell you exactly what needs to be done.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I wonder if we're getting a tad pedantic here. Re. "Strife" I'm reminded of the 4th movement of the Mahler 1st, wherein a fff tympany pulse immediately elicits a furious reaction from the rest of the orchestra. So the downbeat in "Strife," "Festival Canticle," and "Sine nomine" functions similarly as a source of impetus and energy. OTOH, in my other example, the Arcadelt AM, playing the tonic downbeat cannot be performed or regarded in the same manner. It may simply be a heavenly moment of "breath."
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Gavin-
    no choir.
    sigh.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    (heck, if I had a choir it would solve this problem... they'd just sing when I told them to, and double number of people who sing in the church!)
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Yes, a downbeat is played, though not necessarily at every verse.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    The rest, however, should ALWAYS be played.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    The Rest?
    That with which I wrest stands
    alone from all the rest, though
    it's found quite oft abreast
    'mongst all which cannot rest.
    In their splendid dress the
    rest, if so distressed turn
    ghastly and depressed,
    their purpose seems suppressed
    by puffery of chest.
    Alas the random rest quite
    cut off from the "rest"
    prepares to yet address
    A purpose quite expressed.
    It ne'er will fail its test
    It is a silence blest
    When hence the moment crests
    Commandeth here, The Rest!
    (8th rest) dum dum dum/ Dahhhhhhhhh
    And to make clear
    (8th rest again) Dum Dum Dum Dahhhhhhhhhh.

    Resume ye now thy quest.

    c2013 Charles D. Culbreth
    Use with acknowledgment and drop a line.

  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    'Puffery of chest'...
    this is priceless!:
    something we definitely want to avoid...
    lest we be thought of in jest,
    or worse, digressed
    into arrogant pests
    who from pride naught will us wrest.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 833
    As long as the wrestplank holds.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    "if I had a choir it would solve this problem... they'd just sing when I told them to"

    Oh, to be that young and naive! (I'm teasing you, Marajoy...)

    I play the downbeat.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
    Thanked by 2marajoy Gavin
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Charles, you're under arrest!
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    This thread has digressed.
    Thanked by 3melofluent CHGiffen Gavin
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Don't they always. LOL.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Nolo contendre confessed,
    Ma'am Honor, defense rests!

    gimme call, I miss ya.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • cmb
    Posts: 84
    @marajoy, I feel your pain on this one. At my hometown parish, we had a longtime organist who, I believe, played the line in 4, holding "lu" and "ia" each for 2 beats, and axing the rests. The first time I played it there (correctly), the choir and congregation had no idea what was going on.

    (Longtime lurker; first time poster.)
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Welcome, cmb! All I can say is... UGH! :-D
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    as for the rest,
    observing it's best
    but don't get distressed
    because people are dumb
    Thanked by 2Andrew Motyka Spriggo
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