Missa de Angelis
  • henry
    Posts: 241
    Anyone know where I can download a copy of the Mass of the Angels / Missa de Angelis? Couldn't find it on the MusicaSacra website, unless I missed it. Thanks.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    henry, go to the Home page of musicasacra.com and look for the "Kyriale" links on the right hand side (either Solesmnes or Vatican). Look for Mass VIII.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    This is a bit different topic, but it's about the Sanctus VIII, so I'll just post here.

    Our group started to learn Sanctus VIII, and one of my schola guy send an email saying it's too high and the sanctus sounds 'tinny.' (We start with f, 4 note above middle c, as a starting pitch and go up to treble d) I really like this Sanctus, and I believe it's one of the popular one (besides Sanctus XVIII, which we already did and I like to have a bit more challenging one.), so the congregation can eventually sing along. Any advice to help to convince him to sing without complain? I also do lots of vocal excercises to extend the range. During excercises we can sing up tp treble e, but I don't go higher than treble d when we sing chants, at least for now. He sang Sancus XI in men's schola before which stays pretty much in lower range, and I think he liked that one.(I don't like it as much.) I'm just worried since I'm a woman director, maybe I'm picking higher range chants for men. If you have any advice for me, I'd really appreciate it.
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    If you're asking your guys to sing from f above middle c to d above the high c, you're effectively asking them to sing like altos.

    Dropping the initial f by an octave will be a lot more comfortable for them.

    The ranges of Mass VIII and XI are both around an octave, maybe a ninth. IIRC, Mass IX is the ordinary demanding the greatest range, a tenth.

    It's a good trivia question: which chant in the Graduale Romanum demands the greatest vocal range? "Christus factus est," maybe? That spans an eleventh.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    So how do you do it in a mixed group when they sing together? i thought in the mixed group the alto range is good for ladies, and guys can sing octave lower. I tell the guys if they can do this in the range, they do it, otherwise sing octave lower. Many times we alternate verses, but Sanctus, I like to have them sing together. Is there better way to handle the mixed group when they sing together?
    Thanks
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    I would disagree with Pes that this would be the alto range (assuming you mean the f BELOW middle c - no one would think of having men's voices start on the f above). I think there are plenty of men, even basses, who do not have a low F (below the staf fin bass clef) in them, even with proper training. Rare is the alto that has the octave above in her range (male altos are another story) and can sing it beautifully. Curiously, some sopranos, especially the more dramatic, can have richer low notes than their lower-voiced counterparts. (Maria Spacagna used to demonstrate the low F in our lessons). On the other end of the range, however, I think it is a matter of technique. In other words, an alto or a bass who cannot sing the d that is high in their range probably has some fundamental technical shortcomings. With a congregation, I always err on the higher side, assuming those with genuinely low voices will naturally drop the octave. Starting too low, the higher voiced people will simply run out of notes, and singing up an octave does not make sense. With a choir, however, even though I expect everyone can sing the high D, I would probably not ask them to sing higher than C unless it were necessary.
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Incantu

    Great information.

    However, Mia does say, "we start with f, 4 notes above middle c, as a starting pitch, and go up to treble d." That's extremely high vocal range for men, but she is asking them to sing in this range, "if they can do this." Maybe in falsetto, they can.

    As for altos, they're pitched at E3 to E5 at the extreme, right? You're right that F5 would be hard for a normal choral alto to sing beautifully.

    I'd love to find male altos. Philippe Herreweghe found some on his recording of Hassler's music. What a magnificently consistent timbre he gets from that group!
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Mia

    The Schola Gregoriana Pragensis under David Eben has boys and men singing very well together on their "Adoratio Crucis" release, which is wonderful. I don't have the pitches handy, but it might be a place to pick up some ideas.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Pes, Thank you for the link. It looks wonderful. I'll look into that. I was thinking f above middle c for starting pitch meant for people who can do it, otherwise I assumed that most men will sing an octave lower. Sorry,I didn't make it clear in my first post. (When the congregation sings a hymn , we transpose at least a half step down if a hymn goes higher than treble d. And most men automatically sing one octave lower ) I assume this is better, splitting the group by an octave, than finding a middle ground for everyone in the mixed schola? Do any mixed group ever do that?
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