"grievous" or "grievious" ?
  • Paul_OnnonhoaratonPaul_Onnonhoaraton
    Posts: 434
    some thoughts on this here

    As always, I'd be curious for any feedback --- thanks!
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    This issue has more general implications.
    Thanked by 2Dan F. Gavin
  • Paul_OnnonhoaratonPaul_Onnonhoaraton
    Posts: 434
    hahah! good one!
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    It is strange since more often than not people tend to not pronounce letters/syllables that are there rather than add ones that are not. In fact I heard it pronounced "grie-vi-ous" in a Missal training video and actually went to the dictionary just to make sure.
    Thanked by 1Paul_Onnonhoaraton
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    People somehow make it rhyme with "previous".
    Thanked by 1Paul_Onnonhoaraton
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    While we're on pet mispronunciation peeves:

    mischievious (wrong) – mischievous (right)

    Febuary (wrong) – February (right)

    particurly (wrong) – particularly (right)

    nucuelar (wrong) – nuclear (right)

    Warshington (wrong) – Washington (right)
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    You forgot ambidextrious!

    While we are at it - in this strange place where I live, wheels are wills and whales are wells, and there are lots of garage/yard sells.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    And computer periphial devices.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Warshington (wrong) – Washington (right)


    That is not an incorrect pronunciation, it is an accent. It is no more wrong than pahkin' ya cah en bah-stin or finding a joke to be yumourous.

    Pronunciation is based on a framework of similarity. The "a" in "bag" is like the "a" in "cat," but not like the the "a" in "cake." This works whether you grew up in Wisconsin ("beg"), Boston ("baaaaahg") or Canada ("blererigh!! eh?!").

    Thanked by 5Gavin CHGiffen MarkThompson Liam nicolem
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    Which area of the country says warsh for wash? There's a guy I know who says worsh.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Which area of the country says warsh for wash?


    I assume it is southern generally, or Tennessee specifically, as that is how everyone on my mother's side of the family says it (even those of us who are other wise mostly accent-neutral).
  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 349
    .
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Pronunciation is based on a framework of similarity.

    Hence the framework of similarity: previous, devious, grievious, mischievious, etc.

    Frameworks of similarity doesn't make them right.

    And I have lived in and through many regions of the country with unusual accents, pronunciations, and colloquialisms.
    Thanked by 1Jani
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    As CHG has prevously stated, ackseeunt or not, Warshington is wrong 'cause it's framework of simularity isn't right.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    MusicaSacra has now officially breached a Dante-lian higher rung of perdition, notably that we're riffing on a OP from FACEBOOK! Oh, the shame, the ignominy, the horror, the HORROR.
    Expect Professor Mahrt's visage to rise from a muck hole (thus the term "amuck") to chastise ye apostates of au courante mispronunciation with a soft "Veni, vidi, vici !"
    We have stuff to do, or didn't anyone notice?
  • nicolem
    Posts: 11
    Just because I can't resist linguistics debates...

    There has always been a battle between linguistics who prescribe what language is/should be, and those who describe how it actually is. Language changes over time, and pronunciations evolve. To most Americans, it sounds "wrong" to hear [hwat] and [hwen], or even [knajt] (knight, with the K pronounced. If you want to get historical, that's the "right" way and we're doing it "wrong." All linguistic evolutions start somewhere, and either remain in the region, die out, or gain popularity. "Warshing" clothes is not much different from when the Beatles sang "I sawr a film today.." It's an accent, based on a specific sound environment. As for February, the r may have been pronounced at one time, but is not any longer thanks to the sequential categorization of "Janyuary...Febyuary." Try pronouncing all the letters in French and see how intelligible you are to a native speaker today....

    It may not be standard, but that doesn't make it wrong....
    Thanked by 3marajoy Gavin gregp
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    That's kaniggit to you.

    And the first r in February is still pronounced by many; it's not yet archaic. Rather, usage is mixed.

    Then again, in Febyooairy, I went to the lyeberry to read about the noocyular worldwind.

    There is no zoo in zoology. Especially if you say it aloud (not out LOUD).
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    And, I understand that in Japan they sing the 'arrerura chorus'! Are they, on account of their 'sound environment' and 'framework of similarity' right, wrong, or indiffrint?

    (Is there a basis on which to assert that there is an objectively correct pronunciation and usage? And, if there aren't none how can language make any objective sense when what is said isn't what is meant... or, what is meant isn't what is said... except [maybe] in the speaker's mind?)

  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    MJO,
    Aargh! In the context of "Deck the Halls" in the film scene from "A Christmas Story" that would be funny. In real life, Asian choral diction with English and other European linguistics is generally impeccable. Indiffrint (sic) to your point being correct however.
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    Making anything but Feb-RU-ary out of Februarius is just flat out wrong and lazy.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Melofluent -
    Actually, you are quite right about Japanese diction! I have a recording of Bach's Easter and Ascension oratorios by the Bach Collegium Japan, directed by Masaaki Suzuki, hearing which anyone could be forgiven for being certain that he was listening to the finest of Germans. In fact, I've heard Germans who sang and played less Germanically and Bachian than this group. There seems to be no end to the Japanese talent for out-Westing we Westerners on just about anything.

    The other side to this, though, is that many of them seem to be forgetting their own beautiful culture. I called the Imperial Japanese Consulate last year to find where I could get CDs of kabuki music and noh drama. They didn't know what that was!!! And, to compound my disappointment, they spoke to me not in the elegant Japanese accent which I had expected, but in that of a dreadfully ordinary American businessman.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
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