Am I supposed to be directing the entire congregation?
  • awicke
    Posts: 8
    A group of people came to me 6 months ago to start a choir that sings primarily traditional hymns and chant. This is a small parish and the other cantors have a more contemporary style. We have been practicing hymns (be thou my vision and spirit seeking light and beauty) and sang for mass this morning. Our choir area is in the front of the church off to the side and I had my back to the altar while directing the choir. I would turn the same direction as the priest, facing the congregation, when I announced the hymns. The comment I got from the main liturgy gal after mass was that I should direct the entire congregation, not just the choir. I was a little dumbfounded. First off, I will just say that I don't like being up front. Why can't choirs be in the back anymore? Second, if I am expected to direct the entire congregation, doesn't that make it hard to sing anything requiring practice? What is a choir for if not to enhance hymns with polyphony and to sing music the congregation might not sing well? Ave Verum, for example. Is the congregation allowed to just listen anymore? Thanks for any comments!
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Ask your priest if you can please get the choir in the back if the church has that capacity. If not, don't direct the congregation unless explicitly ordered to by the priest. There is too much drum-major-sized laity hand-waving in the liturgy as it is.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    Come to the Colloquium.
    http://www.musicasacra.com/colloquium
    Thanked by 2Gavin Bob_Cook
  • OlbashOlbash
    Posts: 314
    As long as you're in this less than ideal situation, if you are directing congregational music, at least turn to the congregation now and then to acknowledge their presence and confirm that it is OK for them to be singing with you and your choir. If you intend for the choir to sing alone, then it's perfectly fine for you to keep your back to the congregation.
  • OlbashOlbash
    Posts: 314
    Note that even the priest himself turns to the congregation when there are parts of the Mass which pertain to them.
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    Our former director directed the people all the time to the point of distracting what was happening on the altar. Since the tradition is to have choirs in a loft, where they are remote and provide a rather ethereal feel during the mass, I have a problem with directing congregations at all. If people want to be directed, I say they should join the choir!
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Spriggo
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    To the original post, I can only respond: wow.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Tell her you can't direct the congregation b/c that would distract them from MASS... they are supposed to be paying attention to God, the priest, and what's happening at the altar, and they can't if you are making motions indicating they should watch you!
    Thanked by 1Chris Allen
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    While yours is a valid point marajoy, I would advise against saying this as it is unnecessarily contentious. Rather, I would thank her for her input, tell her I gave it some thought, but in the end I don't feel comfortable doing that. It's hard to argue against feelings.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    I am confused. Is it the hymns that need to be directed? Or the chant? I can't imagine the prefaces ("The Lord be with you....") would need to be conducted. And a good congregation singing hymns can most likely get their cues from the organ without somebody needing to conduct.

    You should ask the liturgy person what her specific concerns are.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    When I was directing a schola, I started off with gestures which were fairly large. Over time, I figured out that the range of motion really didn't matter to them, and in fact would be just as useful if my hands only moved a few inches. That's one of the things I learned from this group and the Colloquium.

    I noticed that those people in the congregation who cared about singing with the schola would sit closer to it, so they could hear better and perhaps to see my direction. Most people chose not to do that, which was just fine.

    Of course, we sang 100% a capella. With an organ giving cues, I see no need for additional signals unless it's a really unusual situation.

    I like Scott's approach. I've used that in other situations myself - like for people who have requested music that I thought inappropriate.
  • Steve QSteve Q
    Posts: 119
    I can't get my choir to look at me as I'm conducting...why should I expect the congregation to do so?
    Thanked by 3Chris Hebard CharlesW ContraBombarde
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    I can't get my choir to look at me as I'm conducting...why should I expect the congregation to do so?


    Hah!
  • awicke
    Posts: 8
    Thanks everyone! These comments are great! I am thinking more about how much I am moving when I direct and really I ought to teach them to follow me even with small movements. As far as what her specific concerns are, I am a little afraid to ask - but I will. She comes across as wanting everyone to sing all the time and is annoyed that some of the choir members do not care to sing with the other cantors (who choose more contemporary music and do not teach them how to sing).
    And it gets worse! One of the choir members went to the staff meeting yesterday and told me that the choir and music were discussed there by this liturgy gal and she thought I was being exclusive. So singing different music automatically makes you exclusive, especially if it is of a traditional bent, even though I have always invited anyone to come. I think I will go talk to her today. Pray for me!
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Pray for me!


    Will do. If she is the boss of you, there is not much you can do but obey and offer it up for the remission of temporal punishment. If she's not the boss, thank her for her input, give it its due attention (which judging from your description is not much), and do your own thang and let them rage. Fortitude is the virtue to cultivate here. :)
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