when choir members don't come to practice
  • What to do? We have a couple choir members who come to practice very rarely, but come to sing at Mass on Sundays. It's not that big of deal for regular Masses as the choir generally sings hymns we're familiar with. But it was a huge deal Christmas Eve when we sang a number of songs before the 5 p.m. Mass and those who hadn't shown up much for practice dragged the whole choir down. It was shameful and embarrassing.

    Tonight we had practice with the usual suspects absent. I introduced some of the music we will be singing for the Triduum and know we are in for the same trouble as Christmas Eve. I'm thinking of telling everyone that if they aren't able to make it for practices between now and Easter, please don't come to sing for the Triduum. Is there a better way to deal with this problem?

    Kathy
  • Appeal to their sense of fairness to the rest of the group. It simply isn't fair that the others spend their time and effort in rehearsal and have the end result tarnished when the non-attendee decides to grace you with his/her presence. Also remind them that when they miss a rehearsal, the entire group needs to repeat everything they've learned because the absentees missed it the first time around.

    Try not to make in confrontational, at least not at first. Remember that you do still (presumably) want these singers in the choir; you just want them to show up for rehearsal.
  • Thank you, Andrew. That is very helpful. BTW, one of the pieces we started working on tonight was your "Mandatum novum".

    Kathy
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    I'd make a practical rule (say, 3 out of 4 practices), announce in front of the choir so you can get the force of peer pressure. Make sure to include the logic. Then enforce, as painful as that may be.

    The faithful people will really appreciate it.
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    Ditto what Andrew said. I like Carl's idea too, but it might not work if you are struggling in terms of numbers. Some more thoughts about this:

    I try to catch this problem before it gets to the point where it will affect something major. I approach the singer during a break or before/after rehearsal/Mass, or call them and say something like, "Hey, we've missed you lately. Everything ok?" I listen as patiently and sympathetically as possible to whatever they say (whether it is a completely legitimate reason or an absolutely ridiculous excuse), and then express my concerns. Then I propose a solution (e.g., meet with me separately, sit out on the things you missed, just sing the hymns and the ordinary until your schedule gets under control, etc.).

    With my choirs I have also discussed the fact that the choir functions as a single instrument: when one group of people rehearses a piece and another group shows up to sing it for Mass, it's like perfecting something on a violin only to find out the day of that you have to play it on a tuba.

    If the singer is relatively new to the choir, I put it in terms that express concern for their well-being. The singers who have been in the choir for a while can handle it if I say to them Sunday morning, "[Name], it's not quite there. Might be best to sit out this one today," because they get it -- that it's not about them.
  • We have a tiny choir--the core, that is. We've picked up a couple new members, one of which is due to have a baby next week so I don't think I can count on her. The other is not coming regularly. One of our irregular rehearsal attendees is 91 years old--I understand why he can't come.

    Our tiny core consists of my family (moi + 3 teens, one of whom is the organist) and one faithful gentleman. I think we can do a good job if it's just left to us--we did tonight. This was the best practice ever and we got a lot accomplished. I'd rather the others dropped out altogether or just show up for Sunday Masses to sing hymns. I'd rather work with a few good ones than the "sometimes" others.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Tell the ones who don't show for practice that they can sing the hymns and the ordinary, but not the music which needs to be specifically rehearsed. Let them know that this is a great help and not to worry about coming to rehearsals because you realize that it is a great imposition on their schedule anyway.

    And before doing this say a prayer to Saint Cecilia or another saint who may be understanding and intercede for you. Ask for kind words of wisdom as well as understanding from those to whom you are speaking.
  • Just to build a bit on what jpal said:

    Take the compassionate road. Even though you might know that the excuses for missing rehearsal might be BS (I know I've faced that situation), listen and understand why they were missing. Sometimes just showing that you noticed their absence and you care about their presence can fix everything.
  • I too, have been dealing with this very same problem with our small English adult choir. I would love to hear more input about this. Just recently I picked up Practical Tips for Choir Directors by John Bertalot, which seemed to have some decent advice regarding this, but I certainly would love to hear more from ideas and solutions from everyone as to how they have successfully dealt with this.
  • Since we are dealing with such a small number of people, I think I can handle this on an individual basis and, as "canadash" said, invite those who can't make it to rehearsals to just sing the hymns with us at Sunday Mass. There's just one lady whom I expect may be offended, but I will trust St. Cecelia to help me with her.
  • The forums at www.ChoralNet.org are worth following, especially for non-denominational problems such as attendance. Here's one thread on the subject, that resonated with me. I especially liked one director's policy: if a singer misses two rehearsals in a row, they don't sing the following Sunday.
  • What about the ones who want to cantor, complain about Latin, and go to "Father" because I hired singers for a big event, and then THEY are the ones who miss the most practice?
  • Thank you, Chris. I will keep this for the next choir season IF I return as choir director. I think that will be a good time to have everything presented. For the rest of this season, I just want to get through the Triduum without disaster.
  • I think I've come up with a solution, at least until Easter, which is to have two choir practices per week--one at our regular time on Thursdays which will just be for Holy Week preparation; the other will be before the Mass we sing in on Sunday. I will invite those who with to sing with the choir during Holy Week to come on Thursdays, stipulating that it's an all-or-nothing deal (all practices or sit out Holy Week); those who wish to sing with the choir on the remaining Sundays of Lent need just come one hour before Mass to rehearse. Then after Easter, I think we'll eliminate Thursday practice altogether since we have nothing else special to prepare.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I'm gonna throw this out just to mess with everyone's head-
    What's the point of the parable wherein Jesus describes a landowner hiring a group of workers in the morn, a second group at midday and a last group near end of day, to work his fields? We know the outcome: the owner paid them all the same wage, and when this became known, all hell broke loose among the earlier birds.
    What, pray tell, was the lesson you all think Jesus was sharing with us then?
    For myself, Jesus was remindng folk that if the landowner was confident in his own abiities to manage his assets publicly, that also was evident or reiterated to those who didn't understand realpolitik that "this is just how it is."
    If a quire master has proven their metel within the community over whatever necessary period of time, whiners and grousers should trust that master to know what to do with each latecomer with a likewise appropriate decision. We're all equal of human diginity and worthiness to work our salvation in concert with our Master. We are lamentably, not all created equal in talents. Life ain't fair. Is that news?
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Melo: Yes, but Kathy indicated that those who did not show up for rehearsals caused the music to be "shameful and embarrassing." The no-showers are not adding beauty to the choir. That being said, if someone is of benefit, he can be invited to sing with it, at the director's discretion. Those who don't attend won't know the difference.
  • I agree with canadash. As much as I would like to strictly enforce a strict attendance policy I have to keep reminding myself that this is a volunteer church choir and not a professional choir or a school choir where attendance must be mandatory. I have several elderly members who cannot physically make it each and every week. Others have work conflicts and a few college students who only show up for Christmas and Easter (but to their credit they do add a lot and come prepared). I tend to be more lenient then I should perhaps, but I believe the volunteer choir is a different animal than say an auditioned community choir or collegiate choir.

    I think it goes without saying, however, that if the slackers are bringing down the group overall then it must be made known to them in a charitable way. My choir members know that if they don't know the choir pieces well enough they should sit that piece out, but they can still sit with the choir and sing on the hymns etc. If there aren't enough people who can pull off the choral music then I cut it. Sometimes the piece works at rehearsal but then it flops on the Sunday morning run-through before Mass. I cut it. That just the way it is. I typically have a few organ pieces to cover the extra time that I play at the other services anyways so it's not a big deal. Disappointing perhaps. Now I'm talking about extra choral music like anthems and motets not the propers (though we mostly sing hymns). Even on the hymns, if there is a choir member who cannot sing the harmony, then they can sing melody with the rest of the congregation.

    There are times, however when there is the over-confident singer who can't sing in tune or doesn't know the part even though that person attends every rehearsal. That is a problem that I'm not quite sure how to deal with. If I had enough advanced singers to form a separate auditioned group then I would do that, but that is not the case so I have to adjust my repertoire according the ability of the group I have. It's not always musically satisfying, but it seems like the best ministerial choice.
  • Again, I am dealing with a very small group and I believe I have come up with a way to let all sing at Mass should they wish to, while letting those who are willing and able to come to Thursday practice sing during Holy Week. My problem area is with Christmas and Holy Week where we have extra music outside of the hymns and Ordinary. We had a 30-minute program before the Christmas Eve Mass that was . . . well, someday I may laugh about it, not yet though. Maybe the parade of altar servers carrying chairs into the sanctuary past the choir to the point that I had to back up (while trying to direct the choir) lest I be smacked with a chair was a good distraction from the dreadful performance of the choir. The problem Christmas Eve was I had two choir members who had not shown up for rehearsals but did show up to sing and one actually said to me beforehand, "I didn't miss anything at practice, did I?" The other said the same by her actions.

    I don't think the parable of the latecomers applies here. Maybe the parable of the wedding feast (Matthew 22:1-14) is more fitting.
    8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
    11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless.
    13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
    14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

    Maybe the "wedding clothes" we need to bring to Mass are the BEST we can offer our Lord. An ill-prepared choir is an insult and I would liken it to the offering of Cain who did not offer God his best. The size of the offering does not matter, but the quality does. I will cut our music down to what we can do well and if that is one piece, that's all we'll do.

    Also, the parable of the Great Banquet (Luke 14:15-24) may apply here where the invited guests had all sort of excuses why they could not come. I don't think it's right to make excuses for not preparing our offering of music well, and expect God to be happy we at least showed up to make the offering. First fruits or leftovers? What will please our Lord?

    Kathy
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    I utilize the "2 rehearsal in a row" rule. I have tried to make it self-enforced. The group is good about it. At the very least, I've had a couple of members ask if they could sing on Sunday with the group, but not sing the literature. We work pretty far ahead and we work quickly, so missing two rehearsals in a row is missing a lot!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    That being said, if someone is of benefit, he can be invited to sing with it, at the director's discretion. Those who don't attend won't know the difference.

    Precisely the point of my headscratcher, CD. I'm obtuse, so I tease things a bit. The bald truth of it is that a director should, from start to finish, envision, implement and polish every aspect of the objective performance repertoire based upon an implicit bond and trust with all stakeholders: choir/accompanists, congregation, clerical overseer, God....That means that s/he'll do everything necessary and with love to bring those less talented up to the demands of the job, those who must labor longer, at a slower pace and be monitored, taught and assessed openly and honestly. On the flipside, those dedicated and steady longtime workers of lesser skill should unflinchingly know and show a mutaul understanding that the director reserves the right to augment the talent pool at whatever chronological point of process opportunity presents itself, and that will benefit ALL. If everyone KNOWS and respects their role, then disaster upon presentation won't be a result. The scenarios presented that illustrate how laxity in this process resulted in disaster and embarrassment ultimately prove that the responsibility for such- lies at the feet of the director.
    Now, let me add to the mix that just as psychologically damaging letting ill-prepared slackers ruin the end product of the process would be bringing in unknown (to the choir community of the parish) ringers near the end of the preparations because it's the only option left in a flawed, poorly managed process. Trusting such a director in either case will be breached and recovering that will be long and bumpy.
    My scenario is, of course, based upon my own practices and experiences, full of more mistakes than successes. It could allow for the paid section leaders/scholars (from the other thread) if that is the wisest option before all plans are then acted upon, but I've gone over a couple of decades not using ringers or paid helpers because I made the condition of my coming into my current job of being granted the opportunity of forming an audition-based quire, new to the parish from scratch. From that vantage, I've promoted people up from the "y'all come" ensembles, gotten several of my public school kids involved which continued through college when they come back to town and even into adulthood, find talent in the parochial kids as they mature into adolescence who contribute as much as they can given the demands of the modern high school scholar, etc. If my extremely talented daughter, who is busier in her duties as a county schools theatre music director and studio teacher (with two young boys) can't plug into a cantata until a couple or less weeks before the gig, no one bats an eyelash if one rehearsal night she's there, because she has the cred of being part of the choral fabric that is ironically our extended family.
    But, being the "Master" in my experience means a whole lot more than just being the one with the sheepskins and technical ability to choose music, conduct properly and count heads at rehearsals. YMMV. No offense intended towards Teachermom nor anyone else's sensibilities.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    One friendly approach is: "let me know your schedule for the coming weeks - any times when you will be out of town - so I can plan the choir pieces".
  • It's so difficult to try and plan good music when you don't know who is going to be there. I don't have a problem with singers not being able to sing IF they tell me with enough notice. My choir is very small (only 10 people at the most when everybody is there), and it's difficult to program good music for the major holidays. We've been working on Easter for several weeks now and the sound is wonderful. I was thrown under the bus when "all of a sudden" after several rehearsals, 3 people came to me to tell me they were going on a cruise over Easter. Surely they knew that ahead of time, but waited until I programmed the music that needed their voices. Also, a little while ago, I got a text message from my cantor for the early mass tomorrow morning, cancelling without a reason. I have two cantors, and one sang tonight, so will not be available in the morning, so, once again, it's me, myself and I at the early mass.

    I totally agree that church choirs are, for the most part, composed of volunteers, but being a volunteer does not give carte blanche to do as you please. There is a responsibility towards ministry. As directors, we can emphathize with many situations and be very understanding, but, it is our job to provide music for the service of the mass and without some kind of real dedication and commitment from our singers, we cannot provide the service to which we were called.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Perhaps you should look at it the other way: rather than asking "how can I get singers to come to rehearsal?", ask "What can I practically do with the commitment my singers are giving me?"

    That is to say, maybe scale back to one piece at Mass per month. Get a FIRM commitment from members - and hold them to it. Even if it's as light as "I'm only going to one rehearsal, and I'm going to leave after 10 minutes." If you have significant numbers doing that, you may have to plan repertoire differently than if 10 people pledge to you 2 hours a week.

    Perhaps some may get upset with a more scaled-back program. THAT'S when you say, "with the level of commitment that this program has received, this is what we're capable of reliably executing." And if you can get a stronger commitment, then build from there.
    Thanked by 1Blaise
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    We have three smallish adult choirs which sing weekly. Approximately once a month, they all join together to sing at one Mass, and prepare a choral piece or two for that (the individual choirs don't have the numbers/skill to prepare choral music weekly). I have some people who ONLY sing for the combined choir, and they only need to be at rehearsal for 45 minutes each week. Since the different choirs have different expectations and difficulties, it provides something for just about every level of commitment.

    A detailed rehearsal order, prepared in advance and a link sent to the choir, also helps. It shows that we are expecting them at a certain time on a certain day. Here is a (redacted) example.

    I also make the master choir schedule for the entire season (Sept-June) ahead of time, get everybody a hard copy, and remind people incessantly to check their schedule about upcoming things (that one was revised in December, so it doesn't have the fall). And we also tell people very often, "it's totally fine if you need to miss/be late for something; I just need to know in advance so I can work around it."
  • Perhaps some may get upset with a more scaled-back program. THAT'S when you say, "with the level of commitment that this program has received, this is what we're capable of reliably executing."
    To which the choir response will be:
    But if we are only going to sing once a month, there's no reason to rehearse every week.
    Treating people like children unfortunately results in a childish response. The only way to get people to come to rehearsal is to make them want to come.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "But if we are only going to sing once a month, there's no reason to rehearse every week."

    Amateur community ensembles always rehearse more frequently than they perform. I know a schola that rehearsed twice weekly for about 6-8 months between opportunities to sing at Mass. If a church choir can rehearse for 1-2 hours weekly before singing at Mass, this is ideal. Not all can rise to this ideal, due to the commitment of the members, and THAT'S OK! They can easily join in the hymn singing and responses for the weeks when they cannot perform as an ensemble.

    If someone expresses such as a complaint, they are probably a childish person who is just in choir for the weekly performance high. I don't need people like that. I'll take a choir of 3 people in love with the music and eager to refine their performance over a choir of 4 people who just want to show off.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "The only way to get people to come to rehearsal is to make them want to come."

    There is wisdom behind this, though I disagree with how it is put. For years upon years, I've engaged in relentless self-deprecation over the numbers in my choirs. I believed in the statement above, and thought, "If only I moved the rehearsal time, if only it were shorter, if only I wasn't just so plain ugly and unlikable!" The destructiveness of such an approach is obvious. The only way to "make them want to come" is to pass out free beer. (And free seltzer water for the teetotal among you)

    Rather, I realized that I can't control hundreds of people's social lives. I can't make choir more important to them than TV, or care of their children, or work, or class. That's on them to set their own individual priorities. What I CAN do is make sure that when they come they have an enjoyable, productive, and fulfilling experience. And what else I CAN do is utilize in the best way possible the commitment they are making to the choir - NOT the commitment I WISH they would make!
    Thanked by 1redsox1
  • Well, I tried something new today.......out of 10 adult choir members, only 6 showed up and there were some school children in the congregation that knew all the music, so I went to them and asked them to come and sing with the adults. The adults were mortified. After mass, they told me in no uncertain terms how they felt, to which I answered "I didn't particularly want that, either, but I didn't want the music to suffer because 4 people were missing today. If it bothers you that much, then please call our dear brothers and sisters and see what kept them from mass today". Last night 2 of the 4 missing this morning were at the vigil mass. Why? I have no idea.
    Thanked by 2Gavin Blaise
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Mt56,
    Time for a major attitude overhaul, sounds like to me, based upon your Easter cruisers' story (who wants to go on a cruise now anyway, ya either get fat like me or stranded) and this new kerfuffle. What's obvious is that these "generous, devout volunteers" of yours are displaying motives for participating other than producing musical adornment and leadership for the source and summit of their lives. Their giving you their self-righteous umbrage for encouraging young people to join in sung praise of God (under any circumstances) is as bone-headed as the prospectors in the "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" demanding to see the Federales' badges. You should smile, and reply "Badges. I don' got to show you no stinkin' badges!" In other words, you should never have to explain a good decision you've made for the benefit and welfare of all. If your choice to involve the children had resulted in a musical fiasco, then sure, you gots some 'splainin' to answer for. But, this te d'te fencing of who's in charge here stuff must be called out with as much charity as needed and ordered to cease and desist. Keep your pastor in the loop, document everything, including what you've reported here, and don't be afeared of starting a whole new choral enterprise where everyone who commits, does so knowing that your badge is on your heart, in your intellect and in YOUR hands.
  • MT56, especially if that cantor that called out on you had no excuse and/or good reason, I would have just texted back, thank you for your services, good luck in your job search.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    Yeah, it sounds like you have passive-aggressive and other childish behaviors going on. Time for a reset of EVERYONE'S expectations. You can either try to do it fast to salvage the Holy Week music, or just survive with what you have and then do it afterward. Support from the Pastor would be a HUGE help. My prayers are with you.
  • There is a tremendous sense of entitlement that lies at the heart of too many catholic choirs. They carry an air of superiority over the contemporary group, feel threatened that the group exists and are often controlled by cantors who just love being the center of attention. "I'm cantoring the 8 and will not be staying for the choir at 10." I think that even beats out the number of time that rock and roll guitarists say, "DO YOU WANT FRIES WITH THAT?"

    And then....bringing children into the choir....a huge, huge mistake in their minds. You are making a BIG mistake, SISTER! Unless you are a Sister and then they do not know what to do because a Sister outranks a choir director.

    Some churches hire cantor/organists for all the masses to avoide having to deal with the power struggle needed involved in have a cantor at each mass.

    Keep the kids in, The crappy adults will leave, which is good. Behavior of the choir at rehearsals (among the adults) will drastically improve. Build the choir up until you have to split it because there is not room.

    It is all about singing, not making miserable people lord it over you.

    People who want to sing will show up each week and work hard. As suggested, if someone has missed two rehearsals, have them sit out the anthem.
    Thanked by 1jpal
  • I don't understand where this thread has spun off to, but just wanted you to know my original question/problem has been resolved and am pleased with how this turned out. I had a chance to speak with our priest before Mass and he liked the idea as well, which is to have two practices per week, Thursday for those who wish to sing at during the Triduum and Sunday before Mass for those just wishing to sing for Sunday Mass. After Easter we will just have the before-Mass practice.

    Kathy