Help Identify this Hymn Tune
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Could you please help me identify this hymn tune? I've heard a few different texts set to this tune: "Great God of Mercy, Lord of Consolation" and "Father we Praise thee, now the night is over" (office hymn)

    It is somewhat modal in style and I really like it.
    Hymn Tune.jpg
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  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    ISTE CONFESSOR (ROUEN)
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    For the future, this search engine works pretty well for unknown hymn tunes.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    This 11 11. 11 5 tune is known both by the names ISTE CONFESSOR and ROUEN, the latter presumably because it is a church melody originating from Rouen, France, and found in the Antiphoner (Poitiers, 1746). The appearance of both B-flat and B-natural in the melody does indeed lend a Mode I character to it which is quite appealing.

    In The Hymnal 1940, this tune is called ROUEN and appears as the second tune for of No. 228 "Only-begotten, Word of God eternal" (Latin, 9th cent. transl. by Maxwell J. Blacker, 1884). The first tune in the same hymnal for this text is called ISTE CONFESSOR, which is a Mode VIII Mediaeval plainsong chant that is also quite appealing and, to my mind, underused.
    Thanked by 1SamuelDorlaque
  • Paul_OnnonhoaratonPaul_Onnonhoaraton
    Posts: 434
    This tune is used in the Campion Hymnal (with a rare and beautiful accompaniment). It is one of the 150 hymns included.

    Cannot this tune also be used as a Canon? Anybody know?
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    It is 15 bars long, so I don't know if it could be sung as a canon.

    Thansk for all your help. I am rather fond of this hymn tune and plan to keep it in my gig-folder.
  • dugarner
    Posts: 2
    We sing this tune just about every other week (known as ISTE CONFESSOR) for communion, but it's better known as "Ah, Holy Jesus, How Hast Thou Offended" for Good Friday. I'd love to set it aside for a couple of years before revisiting it again. :)
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    The tune for "Ah, Holy Jesus" should be the chorale which of which it is a translation, namely "Herzliebster Jesu." Using ISTE CONFESSOR (ROUEN) is yet another example of the misuse of a good hymn tune for an excellent, ideal and original hymn tune. I would never sing "Ah, Holy Jesus" to any other tune but the chorale.

    And, no, ISTE CONFESSOR (ROUEN) does not work as a canon.
    Thanked by 4Spriggo M. Jackson Osborn SamuelDorlaque JacobFlaherty
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    It is virtually unknown here in Australia. Then again, a lot of good hymn tunes and good hymns in general are now virtually unknown.

    I get around the problem of repetitiveness by having at least 4 or 5 hymns of each type/season ready to go. I also generally avoid having a recessional hymn, which makes it easier.

    I'm not a great musician by any measure, but I do more than churn out the same 4-hymn sandwich every week like most seem to do.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Well of course it could work as a canon... the question is whether you want common practice tonality to result! ;)
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood JacobFlaherty
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,424
    It never hurts to give a candidate for canonical treatment a 'sing through' and some serious experimentation. Sometimes one is surprised, especially (as Gavin suggests) if one doesn't demand an utterly conventional modal or tonal vocabulary. The Lutherans sing quite a variety of hymn tunes as canons, including some that one would never think would work. Be bold!

    And, the tune under question here is one of the grandest of all, but doesn't really get used all that much.

    And, to anyone who is singing 'Ah, Holy Jesus' to this tune: stop!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • hymndescants.org
    Posts: 28
    11 11. 11 5 is often referred to as sapphic meter, and many of the tunes of the Rouen variety, sometimes called the French diocesan tunes, are written in the meter (Caelites plaudant, Christe sanctorum, Rouen) as are many others (Herzliebster Jusu, Nocte surgentes, Christe lux mundi... Decatur Place!).
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